Faith Freedom International - Forum Indonesia

teroriscinta wrote:cape deh

itu mah cuman perumpamaan aja.
sama kaya sepandai2nya tupai melompat akhirnya jatoh juga.

sorry belum bisa bikin gw murtad..
masih cupu lu

Kalo cape istirohat kebanyakan ngesek ya... nama lo kok lut juu...bro.
Tupai jatuh biasa bro...klo ketembak.
Siapa suruh lo murtad kok GR bangeet...jiiiss!
Gw cupu..ga salah?




Peace...

bluelotus wrote:I am not trying to convince anybody

May Be You're Not.. But You're Always Post Good Things To Read. Not Like Everyone Else Here Which I Can Easily And Carelessly Answer..
After Reading Your Post, Took Me Hours Or Days To Raply.. I Think You Might Aware Of It..

bulelotus wrote:anda kurang source dari Islam sendiri

I Probably Lack of Resources, But It More Like "Lack of Resources Like Your Resources"..

bluelotus wrote:anda baca surah 18:86 dan katakan pembelaan anda tentang sun sets in muddy pool ?? matahari tenggelam di kolam lumpur ??

18:86 wrote:Hingga apabila dia telah sampai ketempat terbenam matahari, dia melihat matahari terbenam di dalam laut yang berlumpur hitam.

See..? It's Said That Dzulqarnain Saw The Sun Set (In The West, Of Course) In The Sea That Look Like A Muddy Pool..
What's Wrong With God Told Muhammad That Dzulqarnain See The Sun Set In Muddy Like Sea..?

It Will Be More Unacceptable If God Told Muhammad How Rotation And Revolution Is..
It Will Impossible, For People That Time..
It Will Cheating, For Today's People..

bluelotus wrote:anda tuduh bukhari bohong ??

Nope.. But There Are No Guarantee That Bukhari's Are Orriginal Until Today..

bluelotus wrote:this is another prejudice made by you, Yaser ... I am dissapointed

bluelotus wrote:anda faham bukan, resiko murtad ??

I Think We Must Get Things Straight..
I Might Be Stunned By Your Posts..
Reading Those Always Make Me Speechless..
But One Thing For Sure..
My "No Prejudice" Is Not The Same With Someone's Who's Already Out Of Religions "No Prejudice"..
I Still Stand For My Religion No Matter What..
And That's Why, I Am Still Searching Until This Very Second..
I Also Think That A Guy You Could Bring Me A Lot Of Cmparison..

Remember One Thing, We Believe In The Same God, The True Source Of Everything..
eventhough We Might Be Differ In Ways..

bluelotus wrote:semoga anda menemukan The Real Truth

That Is What We All Always Wanted..

well ... good morning, yaser

nice to have a discussion with you ... I hope you're in perfect health today

May Be You're Not.. But You're Always Post Good Things To Read. Not Like Everyone Else Here Which I Can Easily And Carelessly Answer..
After Reading Your Post, Took Me Hours Or Days To Raply.. I Think You Might Aware Of It..

thank you, for your compliment ... I really appreciate it
take your time ... enjoy our discussion, as I am enjoying it ...
it may open a new horizon for both of us

I Probably Lack of Resources, But It More Like "Lack of Resources Like Your Resources"..

once more, your honesty is stunning ...

may I suggest something ...
to learn fully about Islam, you must do it by yourself, you must read many of classical works done by muslim scholars, especially the one without censor. Firstly, start with hadith ... finish it

I often walk in bookstore, looking for books to add to my collection and found most of muslim books in Indonesian bookstore is full of sugarcoating ... well ... not exactly lies ... but a very sweet sugarcoating

and you must collect books from opposite side, also - like "journey to the heart and heartland of Islam", and many more ... if you couldn't purchase it, you can simply download it from FFI RC
I recommend ebay and amazon ...

but once more, read everything without prejudice ... and try to put yourself in the opposite side ... this is called empathy
every normal human being has one ...

like I said earlier ...
if every verses in Koran (448 of them) are posted here and all the word "kafir", "Jewish", "people of the books" are changed to "muslims" ... what do you feel ?? check with your heart ...

I provide some example below ... with verse reference to Koran

Q 8:39
Dan perangilah kaum muslim sampai tidak ada lagi huru-hara atau penindasan dan (sampai) di sana berlaku keadilan dan iman dalam Dewa Bintang dan di manapun; tapi jika mereka berhenti (melawan) sesungguhnya Dewa Bintang melihat semua yang mereka lakukan.

Q 9:29
Perangilah orang-orang yang tidak beriman kepada Dewa Bintang ataupun kepada Hari Kiamat, dan mereka tidak mengharamkan apa yang diharamkan oleh Dewa Bintang dan Bluelotus dan tidak beragama dengan agama yang benar (agama dewa bintang), (yaitu orang-orang) yang diberikan Al-quran (muslim) kepada mereka, sampai mereka membayar jizyah dengan patuh sedang mereka dalam keadaan tunduk.

PS : jizyah umum nya capai 80% dari penghasilan kaffir each month (in this case, muslim), dan jika penguasa kejam bisa capai 140% ... this is from historical record from Armenian Christian Massacre ... is this fair to you ??
muslims are under illusion that jizyah is merely couple percent of kaffir's income ...
what if you are subjected to Dewa Bintang's tax ... taking 50% of your income for choosing to be muslim ?? is it fair ??

Q 9:73
Hai bluelotus, berperanglah (melawan) orang-orang islam yang munafik itu, dan bersikap keraslah terhadap mereka. Tempat mereka ialah jahannam. Dan itu adalah tempat kembali yang seburuk-buruknya.

Q 8:66
Sekarang dewa Bintang telah meringankan kepadamu dan dia telah mengetahui bahwa padamu ada kelemahan. Maka jika ada diantaramu seratus orang yang sabar, niscaya mereka akan dapat mengalahkan dua ratus orang muslim; dan jika diantaramu ada seribu orang (yang sabar), niscaya mereka akan dapat mengalahkan dua ribu orang muslim, dengan seizin dewa Bintang. Dan dewa bintang beserta orang-orang yang sabar.

Q 4:89
Mereka ingin supaya kamu menjadi muslim sebagaimana mereka telah menjadi muslim, lalu kamu menjadi sama (dengan mereka). Maka janganlah kamu jadikan di antara mereka penolong-penolong(mu), hingga mereka berhijrah pada jalan dewa bintang. Maka jika mereka berpaling (berubah agama), tawan dan bunuhlah semua muslim di mana saja kamu menemuinya, dan janganlah kamu ambil seorangpun di antara mereka menjadi pelindung, dan jangan (pula) menjadi penolong, (Hukuman bagi yang murtad)

Q 9:5
Apabila sudah habis bulan-bulan Haram itu, maka bunuhlah orang-orang muslim itu dimana saja kamu jumpai mereka, dan tangkaplah mereka. Kepunglah mereka dan intailah ditempat pengintaian.

and still many more ...

do you honestly think that the holy book of dewa bintang is a good one ??
it is specifically targeting non-idolaters of dewa bintang ...

See..? It's Said That Dzulqarnain Saw The Sun Set (In The West, Of Course) In The Sea That Look Like A Muddy Pool..
What's Wrong With God Told Muhammad That Dzulqarnain See The Sun Set In Muddy Like Sea..?

my friend ... there are many flaws in Koran ... this one is one of them ... there are no word "looked like" in the verse ...
thus we have two conclusion

1. someone add up something to "fix" the meaning of it
2. allah is not perfect, thus he "deliver" incomplete verse ...

tell me ... how should we separate verses to be taken literally and not to be taken literally ?? we couldn't use double standard like this to understand one book

if you read the whole verses in Koran ... you will know that Muhammad thinks that the earth are flat ... not round, there are several topics in FFI if you'd like to read about it ...

I Think We Must Get Things Straight..
I Might Be Stunned By Your Posts..
Reading Those Always Make Me Speechless..
But One Thing For Sure..
My "No Prejudice" Is Not The Same With Someone's Who's Already Out Of Religions "No Prejudice"..
I Still Stand For My Religion No Matter What..
And That's Why, I Am Still Searching Until This Very Second..
I Also Think That A Guy You Could Bring Me A Lot Of Cmparison..

Yaser ... at one point in my life ... I am at your position right now ...
I was once a muslim, and I ate everything whole and always tried to make everything right, even though it is not ... I betray my own heart in the process

I tried to rationalise muhammad's killing, I tried to find excuses about his gruesome actions, I think I see myself many many years ago within you right now ... feels like looking into my own youth ...

at that time, when I have doubt, firstly, I go to my friend, a hajji to find explanation ... he couldn't gave me a satisfactory answer rather than my lack of imaan
then I have to check all about Islam myself, buying books, spending time ... reading and rereading books and books and books and books ... I even add up the thickness of my glasses for that
and I found the truth ... it was a very bitter one ... that muhammad, the prophet I once loved is not a good man ...

at that time, I tried to save his face, I tried to rationalise all his actions, how he's not a paedophile, how he's not killing 600 defenseless people, took their belongings and enslave their women and children ... but my heart aching with every single lies I forced myself to believe
thus I choose the truth ...

muhammad was never a good man ...
but at this point, I still believe that Allah is the True Creator ...

do you know what awaken me that allah could not be a True Creator??

because the claim that Koran is perfect ... made by perfect beings - allah ...
yet I found countless contradictions, killing verses ... and I suddenly realised ... that there's NO WAY the True Creator is that sadistic, narcistic, full of anger ... allah SWT is DEFINITELY NOT the True Creator

how come ? because deep down inside my prayer, I always found peace ... I found forgiveness, total acceptance, regardless how many mistakes I've made during my life ... and this feeling never appeared whenever I read Koran ...

seeing fellow human being, I have no prejudice, I have no thoughts whatsoever about their fate in jahannam because they're having different belief ...

as I always said ... show me the error of my way ... and I'll change it ...

I did it ... and IT WAS PAINFUL ...

I lost several friend who are dear to me ... whom I think a "true friend", a family ... but now as I am kafir ... they kept their distance and somehow tried to evade me ...

don't get me wrong here ... there are many many many good muslims in this world ... including you, I believe
but that's because they think the same way as I was ... finding excuses, make up truth ... instead of standing and blatantly saying that ... "THIS CAN'T BE RIGHT" ... with whatever reason

that's why I am saying that this is the path of the brave ...
ready to admit and lost EVERYTHING ... but you gain something in return ... your pure heart ...

Remember One Thing, We Believe In The Same God, The True Source Of Everything..
eventhough We Might Be Differ In Ways..

Yaser ... I believe you may have touched the very surface of the Real Truth ... thus you're saying that we believe in the True Source of Everything, unlike many of your fellow muslims ... why don't jump down instead ??

I have been there ... I have jumped and I found the Truth ... my understanding is beyond "believe"

once you jumped, you'll realise that boundaries in "ways" are actually nonexistent ... deep down inside, we're the same creation from the True Source ... thus all the killing verses are no longer necessary ... right ??

but be careful ... I have to remind you ... once you did it, there's no turning back ...
Love will suck you up ... will cleanse everything within you and left no space to hate ...

watch out ... because when you do, you'll become "stupid" as I am ... like a children
I am no longer able to lie, to play tricks, to cheat for my gain, and always seen something good inside every human being, every creation ... no matter how bad and wretched they are ...and smile never fade from my face ... from the first moment I opened my eyes until and the last moment I closed my eyes ... even in my sleep

could a person like me live in this world ? because of this, I've been cheated many-many times on my work because of this ... but luckily I kept the most precious gift from True Source ... the honor to be able to share unconditional love to everyone, everything ...

blisfully beautiful ... wish I could invite you to my home someday and having a tea

about believing the True Source ...

I'm not believing the taste of Rawon ... I'm already tasting it and never stop doing it until now ... I'm not believing ... I know for sure !! hahahahhaaaaa

1234567890 wrote:kapir = manusia yang seperti binatang

muslim = binatang yang ngaku ngaku manusia

bwakakakkak.......setubuh......eh setuju

Allah terlalu baik,padahal kafir itu sebenarnya lebih rendah dari binatang,hewan aja yg nggak dikasih akal tahu cara berterimakasih kpd penciptanya,manusia yg dikasih akal dan otak gak dipakai,otaknya cuma bisa berpikir negatif,menghujat dan fitnah. kafir itu jauh lebih rendah dari binatang.

si-kendi wrote:padahal kafir itu sebenarnya lebih rendah dari binatang,

kafir itu jauh lebih rendah dari binatang.

Kendi ente kalo ngetik pake pikiran dulu dong!
Lha ente ngetik teknologi kafir,
mouse ente teknologi kafir,
monitor ente teknologi kafir.........

Listrik dirumah ente, teknologi sapa?

Hp, ntuh juga kalo ente punya, teknologi sapa?
Mostor, mubil, ntuh juga kalo ente punya, teknologi sapa?
de el el el el el el........

TEKNOLOGI MUSLIM MANEE?

Nyang binatang nyang manee?
Buka mata hati dan pikiran ente!
Bwuakakakakak.com

kamu pikir tuh otak dr mane, nyawa para penemu itu siapa yg ngasih,hukum alam itu siapa penciptanya,siapa yg menjaga spy tdk tjd anomali dlm kondisi normal,mikir atuh...ilmu manusia itu tak seberapa,jauh dr ilmu Allah,skrg aja br bs nemu pesawat ulang alik,tuhan sdh mengenalkan buraq sjk berabad2 lalu. dasar ***! bener2 lbh rendah dr hewan.

kandi wrote:kamu pikir tuh otak dr mane, nyawa para penemu itu siapa yg ngasih,hukum alam itu siapa penciptanya,siapa yg menjaga spy tdk tjd anomali dlm kondisi normal,mikir atuh...ilmu manusia itu tak seberapa,jauh dr ilmu Allah,skrg aja br bs nemu pesawat ulang alik,tuhan sdh mengenalkan buraq sjk berabad2 lalu. dasar ***! bener2 lbh rendah dr hewan.

hehehe...lo tahu ilmu ALLAH ? kalo ilmu allah swt lo bin babi mohamad lo apa tau? nah itu si buroq ilmu nya allah swt


Peace...

kendi wrote: kamu pikir tuh otak dr mane, nyawa para penemu itu siapa yg ngasih,hukum alam itu siapa penciptanya,siapa yg menjaga spy tdk tjd anomali dlm kondisi normal,mikir atuh...

semua itu dari Tuhan gue bro, bukan dari awloh arab tauk !!

kendi wrote: ...ilmu manusia itu tak seberapa,jauh dr ilmu awloh,

hallah.... ilmu kebo dicucuk hidungnya sama momed kok dibanggain ??
gak salah bro ???

kendi wrote: awloh sdh mengenalkan buraq sjk berabad2 lalu.

anehnya bro.
konon menurut hadits, ketika nabi arab itu naik kebo terbang itu
ke syurrga untuk menemui awloh, ternyata oleh jibril dikasih tahu kalau
awloh lagi berdoa/nungging2.
loh awloh kok berdoa/nungging2 ?
berdoa/nungging2 kepada siapa bro ?
nah lo

kandi wrote:kamu pikir tuh otak dr mane, nyawa para penemu itu siapa yg ngasih,hukum alam itu siapa penciptanya,siapa yg menjaga spy tdk tjd anomali dlm kondisi normal,mikir atuh...ilmu manusia itu tak seberapa,jauh dr ilmu Allah,skrg aja br bs nemu pesawat ulang alik,tuhan sdh mengenalkan buraq sjk berabad2 lalu. dasar ***! bener2 lbh rendah dr hewan.

Ane tau dah maksud ente semua ntuh dari Tuhan Nyang Sejati, ane ngerti!
Tapi jangan salah paham, bukan dari auwllohswt!

Buka mata hati dan pikiran ente, kenape bisa begitu............
Tuhan Nyang Sejati memberi hikmat ame manusia, nyang islam sebut manusia kapir!
Tapi nyang memberikan hikmat bukan auwlohswt bin muhammad alm.

Mosok binatang lebih pinter dari manusia!

Sorry, muhammad alm. cuman ngajar manusia jadi ****, ngerusak dan membinasakan!
Membutakan mata hati, mengakibatkan pola pikir kek acrobat or pola pikir jungkir balik.

Nyang lebih bodo manusia, nyang lebih pinter jauh, lebih maju, disebut binatang!
Nyang bener: "MANUSIA LEBIH PINTER DARI PADA BINATANG!
Mosok ente ngga nyadar juga sih??

Mustinya ente cabut dari ugama nyang tinggi hati ntuh,
baru pola pikir jungkir balik jadi normal!
Kalo ngga, selama-lamanya ente ketinggalan teruss!

Nih ane tamba-in special bakal ente, bro ors sis Kandi:

Kecongkakan mendahului kehancuran, dan tinggi hati mendahului kejatuhan.

Setiap orang yang tinggi hati adalah kekejian bagi TUHAN; sungguh, ia tidak akan luput dari hukuman.

Trim's.

kafir yg benar2 pintar pilih jadi mualaf,krn terbelalak melihat kebenaran ilmu qur'an. tuhan yg kalian sembah itu yg memenggal kepala galileo krn ia bilang bumi itu bulat kan,soalnya kafir ketawa2 wkt dibilang bumi bundar,dia sok yakin bumi itu spt meja,wakakakak....persis spt skrg ini kalian ngetawain qur'an

kandi wrote:kafir yg benar2 pintar pilih jadi mualaf,krn terbelalak melihat kebenaran ilmu qur'an. tuhan yg kalian sembah itu yg memenggal kepala galileo krn ia bilang bumi itu bulat kan,soalnya kafir ketawa2 wkt dibilang bumi bundar,dia sok yakin bumi itu spt meja,wakakakak....persis spt skrg ini kalian ngetawain qur'an

he..kendi , Galileo itu kafir pinter cuman apes saja nasibnya tp skr dah direhabilitasi namanya http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

mungkin dulu yg menghukum mati Galileo itu muslim yg nyamar jadi paus kali ya... paus waktu itu lebih percaya sama ilmunya orang arab yg katanya bumi ini kayak karpet datar.
Tapi sekarang kafir ga akan pernah ketepu lagi ama sains nya quran yg begooo...nya amit...amit...



Peace...

sikendi wrote:kafir yg benar2 pintar pilih jadi mualaf,krn terbelalak melihat kebenaran ilmu qur'an.

Buakakkakak, nih die nyang gw demen!?
Jangan2 sikendi pelawak nyaru muslim.........

paus koq bisa ketipu,nipu apa ketipu. search aja sendiri byk kafir pintar yg mualaf, ada m. antonio syafei,ada machre,dll search aja snediri.

kandi wrote:paus koq bisa ketipu

Paus juga manusia!
Muhammad alm juga pernah nepu!
Ustadz juga pernah nepu!

Emang ente belon pernah ketepu?

Ane juga pernah ketepu!
Sby nyang gw kenal phanter juga pernah ketepu -> bahan bakar bisa dibikin dari air!

Asal jangan nepu ajah yah, nanti ditangkep pulisi! Trim's.

kandi wrote:kafir yg benar2 pintar pilih jadi mualaf,krn terbelalak melihat kebenaran ilmu qur'an. tuhan yg kalian sembah itu yg memenggal kepala galileo krn ia bilang bumi itu bulat kan,soalnya kafir ketawa2 wkt dibilang bumi bundar,dia sok yakin bumi itu spt meja,wakakakak....persis spt skrg ini kalian ngetawain qur'an

Ih *****, Galileo kena tahanan Rumah Kerajaan Italia. Hoax darimana lg itu?

kl uztad ya wajarlah,krn uztad itu manusia juga,tp kl nabi gak pernah ketipu trus menghukum orang yg gak bersalah,hakim itu pertanggugjawabannya besar,jgn2 paus emang langganan ketipu tuh,kitab kl sdh tdk utuh,trus sdh dtg penggantinya ya jgn dipertahankan brg usangnya,jd gak ketipu,ganti dg yg baru.

kandi wrote:Allah terlalu baik,padahal kafir itu sebenarnya lebih rendah dari binatang,hewan aja yg nggak dikasih akal tahu cara berterimakasih kpd penciptanya,manusia yg dikasih akal dan otak gak dipakai,otaknya cuma bisa berpikir negatif,menghujat dan fitnah. kafir itu jauh lebih rendah dari binatang.

apa susahnya saya tiru bahwa saya nabi, Kandi ...
kalau anda bisa percaya bohong muhammad, saya bisa juga bilang

"Al-lotus terlalu baik,padahal muslim itu sebenarnya lebih rendah dari binatang,hewan aja yg nggak dikasih akal tahu cara berterimakasih kpd penciptanya (Al-lotus),manusia yg dikasih akal dan otak gak dipakai,otaknya cuma bisa berpikir negatif,menghujat dan fitnah. muslim itu jauh lebih rendah dari binatang."

mari ikut agama saya ... bisa bunuh muslim banyak-banyak ... dan nanti diberi banyak sex di surga Al-lotus

kalau kamu bisa menjelaskan bhw bumi bundar saat orang2 msh menganggap bumi itu datar may be aku akan percaya kata2 kamu,tp ini enggak kan,kamu cuma ngarang2 aja,cuma mengkhayal bhw nabi a,b,c tp tidak ada buktinya,hanya imajinasi otak kotor dan kedengkian hatimu pd Islam.