[2:186] Dan apabila hamba-hamba-Ku bertanya kepadamu tentang Aku, maka , bahwasanya Aku adalah dekat. Aku mengabulkan permohonan orang yang berdo'a apabila ia memohon kepada-Ku, maka hendaklah mereka itu memenuhi dan hendaklah mereka beriman kepada-Ku, agar mereka selalu berada dalam kebenaran.
nah makanya squall mulai lah berdo'a karena do'a bisa mematahkan Ketetapan buruk...kalo ragu berdo'a kpd tuhan yg mana ...berserulah Kepada TUHAN PENCIPTA SEMESTA ALAM
ADAKAH KESELAMATAN DALAM ISLAM?
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wah.. ada tanggapan juga... ayo kita berlogika...gaston31 wrote: gw ga akan de berprasangka am Tuhan, itu memng hakny sbagai pencipta. stndrd keadilan yg kau minta kan itu mnurut elo, mungkn aj beda dgn keadilan menurut Tuhan.
manusia diciptakan dgn akal + napsu + hati. kombinasi ini yg membikin sifat manusia berbeda2. kombinasi yg kdang jg membuat manusia menjadi berdosa. pdhl Tuhan jg memberikan rule agar manusia tdk jatuh dosa. tinggl bgmn kita ngambil sikap aj,bisa gak tdk melanggar laranganNya??
beda dgn malaikat yg tanpa napsu, jdny ya nurutttt terus.
jd its up to Us, nuruti napsu ato tdk, Its free will!
kebebasan dgn konsekuensi tentuny.
bukan berprasangka friend..
jadi prinsipnya kita kan manusia.. mana kita tahu dong ALLAH mana yg benar... bisa aja allah palsu.. jadi kita GUNAKAN OTAK DAN HATI NURANI yang PASTI diberikan oleh ALLAH YG ASLI buat menguji sifat2 yang pasti DIMILIKI OLEH ALLAH YG ASLI...
(dalam hal ini saya menggugat SIFAT KEMAHA ADILAN , KEMAHA SUCIAN dan KEMAHA SEMPURNAAN yang menurutku pasti dimiliki oleh ALLAH YG ASLI)
jadi kamu setuju toh bahwa ALLAH ISLAM telah menetapkan bahwa manusia pasti melanggar perintah ALLAH seperti FF??
Jangan lupa cerita DEBAT ADAM dan MUSA...!!
jadi belum ada jawaban nih...
kutunggu bukti 2 selanjutnya...
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thanks.. lihat kan.. saya tidak berusaha mematahkan ketetapan yg buruk..feodor fathon FF wrote: nah makanya squall mulai lah berdo'a karena do'a bisa mematahkan Ketetapan buruk...kalo ragu berdo'a kpd tuhan yg mana ...berserulah Kepada TUHAN PENCIPTA SEMESTA ALAM
saya mau tahu kenapa ada ketetapan itu..
aku sedang menguji yg manai ALLAH YG BENAR-BENAR ASLI dan TUHAN PENCIPTA SEMESTA ALAM.. denga OTAK dan HATI NURANI yang PASTI DIBERIKAN OLEH ALLAH YG ASLI...
PASTI aku bold... hehehehehehe
Contoh manusia yang tidak menyia-nyiakan karunia Tuhan : mempergunakan akal budi nya.SQUALL LION HEART wrote: thanks.. lihat kan.. saya tidak berusaha mematahkan ketetapan yg buruk..
saya mau tahu kenapa ada ketetapan itu..
aku sedang menguji yg manai ALLAH YG BENAR-BENAR ASLI dan TUHAN PENCIPTA SEMESTA ALAM.. denga OTAK dan HATI NURANI yang PASTI DIBERIKAN OLEH ALLAH YG ASLI...
PASTI aku bold... hehehehehehe
Semoga mas Lion berhasil.... hehehehehe
ntar Squal, tp elo sndri, knp nrima klo elo kudu mikul dosanya adam & hawa? buat gw itu ktetapan yg buruk. knp ga elo kritisi aj ini dulu?SQUALL LION HEART wrote: thanks.. lihat kan.. saya tidak berusaha mematahkan ketetapan yg buruk..
saya mau tahu kenapa ada ketetapan itu..
aku sedang menguji yg manai ALLAH YG BENAR-BENAR ASLI dan TUHAN PENCIPTA SEMESTA ALAM.. denga OTAK dan HATI NURANI yang PASTI DIBERIKAN OLEH ALLAH YG ASLI...
PASTI aku bold... hehehehehehe
didlm islam kita meyakini Allah puny ktetapan akan nasib kita, baik ato buruk. tp kita jg bs brusaha merubah nasib itu, dgn ikhtiar(bekerja/berusaha) dan terakhir dgn berdo'a.
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hehehehehehe.. ini OOT ke kristen temen...
tapi ngak apalah aku jawab sedikit u/ kamu....
semoga ngak didelete moderator..
tapi ini aja ya...
dulu saya juga suka sekali kritik ini.. saya kok sial banget.. belum ngapa-ngapain dapat benih dosa...
tapi susah ngelesnya..
kira-kira beginilah logikanya manusia biasa..
ALLAH KRISTEN menerapkan FREE WILL..
manusia diciptakan sempurna dan baik adanya dan diberikan pilihan bebas. kalo ngak ya jadilah robot aja yg sibuk memuji ALLAH...
ADAM jatuh ke dalam dosa itu salah ADAM (ADAM yg pilih sendiri)....
dan benih dosa adalah sifat dari dosa..
jadi kita keturunan langsung ADAM jadi ketiban..
siapa suruh kamu mau jadi keturunan ADAM..
bingung aku jawabnya... ya salah neneng moyang dong..
makanya YESUS harus dilahirkan oleh anak DARA.. (bukan sekedar pamer bahwa DIA ANAK ALLAH ..)
tentang keadilan dalam mengatasi sifat dosa yg turun temurun ini ada dalam cerita lain .. YUP..
udah ya.. jangan OOT ke KRISTEN.. nanti aku diban moderator...
ini FFI bung.. bukan ngurusin ajaran KRISTEN punya...
LANJUT ke TOPIK..
tapi ngak apalah aku jawab sedikit u/ kamu....
semoga ngak didelete moderator..
tapi ini aja ya...
dulu saya juga suka sekali kritik ini.. saya kok sial banget.. belum ngapa-ngapain dapat benih dosa...
tapi susah ngelesnya..
kira-kira beginilah logikanya manusia biasa..
ALLAH KRISTEN menerapkan FREE WILL..
manusia diciptakan sempurna dan baik adanya dan diberikan pilihan bebas. kalo ngak ya jadilah robot aja yg sibuk memuji ALLAH...
ADAM jatuh ke dalam dosa itu salah ADAM (ADAM yg pilih sendiri)....
dan benih dosa adalah sifat dari dosa..
jadi kita keturunan langsung ADAM jadi ketiban..
siapa suruh kamu mau jadi keturunan ADAM..
bingung aku jawabnya... ya salah neneng moyang dong..
makanya YESUS harus dilahirkan oleh anak DARA.. (bukan sekedar pamer bahwa DIA ANAK ALLAH ..)
tentang keadilan dalam mengatasi sifat dosa yg turun temurun ini ada dalam cerita lain .. YUP..
udah ya.. jangan OOT ke KRISTEN.. nanti aku diban moderator...
ini FFI bung.. bukan ngurusin ajaran KRISTEN punya...
LANJUT ke TOPIK..
- feodor fathon FF
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sekali lagi fahami dialog Adam dng Musa dalam konteks Nubuatan ...insya Allah mengerti ...
Yesus bersabda "cawan ini harus aku minum".... Yesus ditetapkan oleh Tuhan untuk dikhianati kaumnya dan apakah kaum yg mengkhianatinya digerakkan Tuhan untuk berkhianat agar nubuatan ini terwujud ?????.............
barangsiapa yg tidak berdo'a memohon jalan yang lurus maka ia akan memenuhi nubuatan buruk bagi dirinya
Yesus bersabda "cawan ini harus aku minum".... Yesus ditetapkan oleh Tuhan untuk dikhianati kaumnya dan apakah kaum yg mengkhianatinya digerakkan Tuhan untuk berkhianat agar nubuatan ini terwujud ?????.............
barangsiapa yg tidak berdo'a memohon jalan yang lurus maka ia akan memenuhi nubuatan buruk bagi dirinya
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semoga di sono ada free will..gaston31 wrote:ok, ok. udh OOT. kirain elo gak ngritik dosa waris yg elo trima, gtu. dan kita jg spakat free will dsini.
ok lanjutt..
tapi berarti benar kan udah ditetapkan bakalan jatuh ke dalam dosa.
dan aku tidak setuju kalau ALLAH menetapkan juga hal yg buruk.. bagiku ALLAH MAHA SUCI dan MAHA BAIK.. tidak akan menetapkan yg buruk buat manusia ciptaanNYA
kalau memang bayi itu suci sejak lahir...muncul dong manusia suci.. ada ngak ya di FFI ?? ayo ngaku...
bkn ditetapkan bkalan jatuh kedosa, tp memng sdh bawaan dr manusia utk cenderung berbuat dosa dan kerusakan:
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2. Al Baqarah
30. Ingatlah ketika Tuhanmu berfirman kepada para Malaikat: "Sesungguhnya Aku hendak menjadikan seorang khalifah di muka bumi." Mereka berkata: "Mengapa Engkau hendak menjadikan (khalifah) di bumi itu orang yang akan membuat kerusakan padanya dan menumpahkan darah, padahal kami senantiasa bertasbih dengan memuji Engkau dan mensucikan Engkau?" Tuhan berfirman: "Sesungguhnya Aku mengetahui apa yang tidak kamu ketahui."
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maka dr itu sjak jmn dahulu dipilih nabi2 & rasul utk memberikan petunjuk kpd manusia.
dan spt yg gw blang sblmny, nafsu manusia yg membuat manusia jatuh kedalam dosa, jd tdk sejak lahir.
--
2. Al Baqarah
30. Ingatlah ketika Tuhanmu berfirman kepada para Malaikat: "Sesungguhnya Aku hendak menjadikan seorang khalifah di muka bumi." Mereka berkata: "Mengapa Engkau hendak menjadikan (khalifah) di bumi itu orang yang akan membuat kerusakan padanya dan menumpahkan darah, padahal kami senantiasa bertasbih dengan memuji Engkau dan mensucikan Engkau?" Tuhan berfirman: "Sesungguhnya Aku mengetahui apa yang tidak kamu ketahui."
---
maka dr itu sjak jmn dahulu dipilih nabi2 & rasul utk memberikan petunjuk kpd manusia.
dan spt yg gw blang sblmny, nafsu manusia yg membuat manusia jatuh kedalam dosa, jd tdk sejak lahir.
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jadi benarkan ciptaan ALLAH ISLAM kurang sempurna.. hehehehehe..gaston31 wrote:bkn ditetapkan bkalan jatuh kedosa, tp memng sdh bawaan dr manusia utk cenderung berbuat dosa dan kerusakan:
dan dengan otak ini saya cuma berpikir.. apakah sang pencipta ngak berpikir sehingga menciptakan sesuatu yg cenderung berbuat dosa sedangkan dosa jelas akan dihancurkan oleh YG MAHA KUDUS dan SUCI.. agak aneh gitu lho.. jadi saya secara logika lebih menerima penciptaan secara sempurna..
"SESUNGGUHNYA ALLAH MAHA MENGETAHUI" adalah kata2 yg bagus kalau itu ALLAH YG BENAR YG NGOMONG (manusia biasa mengertilah ALLAH terlalu sukar u/ dimengerti) .. gitu lho..
tapi kalau malah IBLIS YG MENYAMAR dan pura2 menjadi allah demi membenarkan omongannya gimana ? kita bisa aja ketipu..
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- feodor fathon FF
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logika ini sudah terbantah ...squall wrote:tapi kalau malah IBLIS YG MENYAMAR dan pura2 menjadi allah demi membenarkan omongannya gimana ? kita bisa aja ketipu..
kalo Muhammad ditemui Iblis maka otomatis Quran semuanya dari Iblis tapi kalo ente baca apa mungkin Iblis menginspirasikan hal2 agung ?? ini gak logis
trus kalo cuma sepotong yg dari Iblis ini lebih aneh logikanya .... apa TUhan gak mampu membersihkan hambanya yg dipilih jadi rasul dari intervensi Iblis ??...Tuhan kalah sama Iblis ??....nah ini juga gak logis ...
artinya gini kalo ente mau nuduh Muhammad dapat inspirasi dari Iblis maka ente harus ngomong bahwa Quran 100% ajaran Iblis
atau kalo ente nganggap sebagian dari Tuhan atao sebagian dri Iblis maka ente harus ngomong bahwa Tuhan tak berdaya oleh Iblis ....
keduanya bisa saya bantah dng mudah kalo disodorkan bukti
- feodor fathon FF
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anda salah justru Yesus nanti menominasikan Muhammad sbg penyelamat :kasih_adalah_perbuatan wrote:Tidak ada nama Lain yang diberikan kepada manusia yang kepadanya akan diselematkan selain nama YESUS. ^^
- SAHIH BUKHARI Book 001, Number 0378:
Abu Huraira reported: Meat was one day brought to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and a foreleg was offered to him, a part which he liked. He sliced with his teeth a piece out of it and said: I shall be the leader of mankind on the Day of Resurrection. Do you know why? Allah would gather in one plain the earlier and the later (of the human race) on the Day of Resurrection. Then the voice of the proclaimer would be heard by all of them and the eyesight would penetrate through all of them and the sun would come near. People would then experience a degree of anguish, anxiety and agony which they shall not be able to bear and they shall not be able to stand. Some people would say to the others: Don you see in which trouble you are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken you? Why don't you find one who should intercede for you with your Lord? Some would say to the others: Go to Adam. And they would go to Adam and say: O Adam, thou art the father of mankind. Allah created thee by His own Hand and breathed in thee of His spirit and ordered the angels to prostrate before thee. Intercede for us with thy Lord Don't you see in what (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? Adam would say: Verily, my Lord is angry, to an extent to which He had never been angry before nor would He be angry afterward. Verily, He forbade me (to go near) that tree and I disobeyed Him. I am concerned with my own self. Go to someone else; go to Noah. They would come to Noah and would say: O Noah, thou art the first of the Messengers (sent) on the earth (after Adam), and Allah named thee as a" Grateful Servant," intercede for us with thy Lord. Don't you see in what (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? He would say: Verily, my Lord is angry today as He had never been angry before, and would never be angry afterwards. There had emanated a curse from me with which I cursed my people. I am concerned with only myself, I am concerned only with myself; you better go to Ibrahim (peace be upon him). They would go to Ibrahim and say: Thou art the apostle of Allah and His Friend amongst the inhabitants of the earth; intercede for us with thy Lord. Don't you see in which (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? Ibrahim would say to them: Verily, my Lord is today angry as He had never been angry before and would never be angry afterwards. and (Ibrahim) would mention his lies (and then say): I am concerned only with myself, I am concerned only with myself. You better go to someone else: go to Moses. They would come to Moses (peace be upon him) and say: O Moses, thou art Allah's messenger, Allah blessed thee with His messengership and His conversation amongst people. Intercede for us with thy Lord. Don't you see in what (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? Moses (peace be upon him) would say to them: Verily. my Lord is angry as He had never been angry before and would never be angry afterwards. I, in fact, killed a person whom I had not been ordered to kill. I am concerned with myself, I am concerned with myself. You better go to Jesus (peace be upon him). They would come to Jesus and would say: O Jesus, thou art the messenger of Allah and thou conversed with people in the cradle, (thou art) His Word which I-Ie sent down upon Mary. and (thou art) the Spirit from Him; so intercede for us with thy Lord. Don't you see (the trouble) in which we are? Don't you see (the misfortune) that has overtaken us? Jesus (peace be upon him) would say: Verily, my Lord is angry today as He had never been angry before or would ever be angry afterwards. He mentioned no sin of his. (He simply said: ) I am concerned with myself, I am concerned with myself; you go to someone else: better go to Muhammad (may peace be upon him).
They would come to me and say: O Mahammad, thou art the messenger of Allah and the last of the apostles. Allah has pardoned thee all thy previous and later sins. Intercede for us with thy Lord; don't you see in which (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? I shall then set off and come below the Throne and fall down prostrate before my Lord; then Allah would reveal to me and inspire me with some of His Praises and Glorifications which He had not revealed to anyone before me. He would then say: Muhammad, raise thy head; ask and it would be granted; intercede and intercession would be accepted I would then raise my head and say: O my Lord, my people, my people. It would be said: O Muhammad, bring in by the right gate of Paradise those of your people who would have no account to render. They would share with the people some other door besides this door. The Holy Prophet then said: By Him in Whose Hand is the life of Muhammad, verify the distance between two door leaves of the Paradise is as great as between Mecca and Hajar, or as between Mecca and Busra.
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:feodor fathon FF wrote: anda salah justru Yesus nanti menominasikan Muhammad sbg penyelamat :
- SAHIH BUKHARI Book 001, Number 0378:
Abu Huraira reported: Meat was one day brought to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and a foreleg was offered to him, a part which he liked. He sliced with his teeth a piece out of it and said: I shall be the leader of mankind on the Day of Resurrection. Do you know why? Allah would gather in one plain the earlier and the later (of the human race) on the Day of Resurrection. Then the voice of the proclaimer would be heard by all of them and the eyesight would penetrate through all of them and the sun would come near. People would then experience a degree of anguish, anxiety and agony which they shall not be able to bear and they shall not be able to stand. Some people would say to the others: Don you see in which trouble you are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken you? Why don't you find one who should intercede for you with your Lord? Some would say to the others: Go to Adam. And they would go to Adam and say: O Adam, thou art the father of mankind. Allah created thee by His own Hand and breathed in thee of His spirit and ordered the angels to prostrate before thee. Intercede for us with thy Lord Don't you see in what (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? Adam would say: Verily, my Lord is angry, to an extent to which He had never been angry before nor would He be angry afterward. Verily, He forbade me (to go near) that tree and I disobeyed Him. I am concerned with my own self. Go to someone else; go to Noah. They would come to Noah and would say: O Noah, thou art the first of the Messengers (sent) on the earth (after Adam), and Allah named thee as a" Grateful Servant," intercede for us with thy Lord. Don't you see in what (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? He would say: Verily, my Lord is angry today as He had never been angry before, and would never be angry afterwards. There had emanated a curse from me with which I cursed my people. I am concerned with only myself, I am concerned only with myself; you better go to Ibrahim (peace be upon him). They would go to Ibrahim and say: Thou art the apostle of Allah and His Friend amongst the inhabitants of the earth; intercede for us with thy Lord. Don't you see in which (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? Ibrahim would say to them: Verily, my Lord is today angry as He had never been angry before and would never be angry afterwards. and (Ibrahim) would mention his lies (and then say): I am concerned only with myself, I am concerned only with myself. You better go to someone else: go to Moses. They would come to Moses (peace be upon him) and say: O Moses, thou art Allah's messenger, Allah blessed thee with His messengership and His conversation amongst people. Intercede for us with thy Lord. Don't you see in what (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? Moses (peace be upon him) would say to them: Verily. my Lord is angry as He had never been angry before and would never be angry afterwards. I, in fact, killed a person whom I had not been ordered to kill. I am concerned with myself, I am concerned with myself. You better go to Jesus (peace be upon him). They would come to Jesus and would say: O Jesus, thou art the messenger of Allah and thou conversed with people in the cradle, (thou art) His Word which I-Ie sent down upon Mary. and (thou art) the Spirit from Him; so intercede for us with thy Lord. Don't you see (the trouble) in which we are? Don't you see (the misfortune) that has overtaken us? Jesus (peace be upon him) would say: Verily, my Lord is angry today as He had never been angry before or would ever be angry afterwards. He mentioned no sin of his. (He simply said: ) I am concerned with myself, I am concerned with myself; you go to someone else: better go to Muhammad (may peace be upon him).
They would come to me and say: O Mahammad, thou art the messenger of Allah and the last of the apostles. Allah has pardoned thee all thy previous and later sins. Intercede for us with thy Lord; don't you see in which (trouble) we are? Don't you see what (misfortune) has overtaken us? I shall then set off and come below the Throne and fall down prostrate before my Lord; then Allah would reveal to me and inspire me with some of His Praises and Glorifications which He had not revealed to anyone before me. He would then say: Muhammad, raise thy head; ask and it would be granted; intercede and intercession would be accepted I would then raise my head and say: O my Lord, my people, my people. It would be said: O Muhammad, bring in by the right gate of Paradise those of your people who would have no account to render. They would share with the people some other door besides this door. The Holy Prophet then said: By Him in Whose Hand is the life of Muhammad, verify the distance between two door leaves of the Paradise is as great as between Mecca and Hajar, or as between Mecca and Busra.
SAHIH BUKHARI NO 2818 :
SORGA ITU DIBAWAH KILATAN PEDANG!!!
MAKA PESAN ANA UTK ENTE MUSLIM SEMUA, AYUNKANLAH GOLOK, CLURIT, ATAU SAMURAI ANDA, MAKA ANDA MASUK KE SORGA.
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muncul lagi FF.. ??feodor fathon FF wrote: trus kalo cuma sepotong yg dari Iblis ini lebih aneh logikanya .... apa TUhan gak mampu membersihkan hambanya yg dipilih jadi rasul dari intervensi Iblis ??...Tuhan kalah sama Iblis ??....nah ini juga gak logis ...
keduanya bisa saya bantah dng mudah kalo disodorkan bukti
engkau terlalu meremehkan kemampuan iblis temen....
baik.. aku membalikan pertanyaanmu aja..
pertanyaan logis.. kenapa TUHAN ISLAM ngak mampu membersihkan nabinya dan mengharuskan nabinya jadi pembunuh, suka ngeseks sama pembantu, suka sama budak, suka sama anak kecil.. mati kena racun tidak disembuhkan.. apa TUHAN ISLAM KURANG BERKUASA YA?
apakah TUHAN ISLAM kalah sama IBLIS sampai IBLIS berhasil meracuni NABI INI ?????????????????? (lihat tanda tanya nih.. banyak bangetttt)
tak perlu bukti buat menguatkan hal ini.. memang terjadi..
kalau kemarin2 aku sibuk menggugat ALLAH ISLAM..
sekarang aku menggugat nabinya aja...
dalam hal ini aku ngak heran.. ciptaan aja kurang sempurna.. apalagi nabinya.. super tidak sempurna..
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Allah berkata bahwa ia ”mempunyai moral yang maha mulia " (Quran 68:4).” dan ”sebenarnya nabi adalah contoh sempurna untuk diikuti (Quran 33:21).”
benarkah NABI ini sempurna ??????????????????????????
apakah ALLAH ISLAM tidak bisa memilih yg lebih baik sedikitlahhhhh... MEMANGNYA ALLAH ISLAM **** YA.....
KENAPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ???
lalu dikatakan sebagai Nabi Rahmat Alam Semesta
sungguh ajaib.. lihat saja bagaimana ISLAM terlibat dalam begitu banyak perang di dunia.. bagaimana bisa jadi RAHMAT ALAM SEMESTA.. ????
PERANG dan KEKACAUAN = RAHMAT ALAM SEMESTA.. ??
apa otakku yg tidak mengerti ???
benarkah NABI ini sempurna ??????????????????????????
apakah ALLAH ISLAM tidak bisa memilih yg lebih baik sedikitlahhhhh... MEMANGNYA ALLAH ISLAM **** YA.....
KENAPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ???
lalu dikatakan sebagai Nabi Rahmat Alam Semesta
sungguh ajaib.. lihat saja bagaimana ISLAM terlibat dalam begitu banyak perang di dunia.. bagaimana bisa jadi RAHMAT ALAM SEMESTA.. ????
PERANG dan KEKACAUAN = RAHMAT ALAM SEMESTA.. ??
apa otakku yg tidak mengerti ???