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Prestasi yahudi vs arab

Benturan dan bentrokan antara Islam dengan agama-agama dan peradaban lain di seluruh penjuru dunia.

Postby ali18115 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:43 pm

Adadeh wrote:No, I didn't say it still happen now. But back then, during the Muhammad era, he gained many more followers AFTER he became rich by lootings. When he was still weak and not rich in Mekah, he couldn't have many followers.

I don't hate Muslims, I hate Islam. I strongly think Muslims are the main victims of Islam, the other victims are non-Muslims who live around fanatic Muslims.


Not responding. OOT - nothing to do with "yahudi vs arab".

Adadeh wrote:Yes, that hadis can only be found here (it's not from A. Sina):
“The Translation of Sahi Bukhari” oleh Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan. [Ref: The Translation of the Meanings of Sahih Al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, Vol.IV (page 104) by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Islamic University—Al-Medina Al-Munauwara].


Not responding. OOT - nothing to do with "yahudi vs arab".

Adadeh wrote:
ali18115 wrote:Pelestinian arabs. Who do you think the former land-owners were?
Well, let's compare your opinion with this information:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... mf2.html#a
Quote:
from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins
...
By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.


There you go.... you have answered your own question as to who formerly own the lands that the jews bought from, the arabs (irrespective whether they are staying in it or not). But does buying a land give the jews the right to establish a new state? From my example before, obviously NOT.

Adadeh wrote:The Jews didn't steal the land from the Arabs, they purchased it, they don't force the Arabs to leave the land either.


Maybe you need to hear more of what Ben Gurion had to say :

Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget."

Or this statement by another zionist leader would make it clearer :

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.


Adadeh wrote:I never said Muslims are lazy. But the ones who have no job and blame others for their condition by rioting are lazy criminals.


Not responding. OOT - nothing to do with "yahudi vs arab".

Adadeh wrote:At the beginning of the war, Bush mentioned about facing a crusade war against the Afghans. Then he realized that was politaclly incorrect because many Muslim countries didn't like that term. Since then the term is Fight for Freedom, Freedom War, Freedom this and that, but the Americans understand that bin Laden's hatred toward the Westerners was legitimized by the content of Qur'an just like what he explained over and over at CNN during the Afghan war.


Not responding. OOT - nothing to do with "yahudi vs arab".

Adadeh wrote:The Americans don't blame Bush only, but also the whole Congress. The hurricane Catherina dissaster still taking its toll. Once this passes, things will get back to normal as usual.


Not responding. OOT - nothing to do with "yahudi vs arab".

Adadeh wrote:You haven't answered my question regarding the quote you posted from David b. Gurion. I asked you whether or not you agree with his opinion?


Opinion??? The statement does not come from a non-jew or me. It came from a jews' leader on what the jews had done. It is an ADMISSION (not an opinion). Who ever heard of agreeing or not agreeing on an ADMISSION ?
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Postby ali18115 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:37 pm

badmotha wrote:apa kaitannya? apakah dunia arab IRI melihat Israel mendapatkan banyak bantuan? apakah Aulloh IRI dengan israel sehingga menyuruh membenci dan menyerang orang Yahudi?


Tuhan iri hati dengan manusia???

badmotha wrote:Masalah donor atau tidak donor tidak masalah. pernah dengar hukum ekonomi? itulah yang dipraktekkan. Pernyataan anda hanya menambah keyakinan bahwa bangsa Israel lebih superior dari Arab, demikian pula Amerika yang membonceng Israel untuk memporaporandakan negara arab.


Jadi kamu sekarang sedar bahawa kekayaan israel itu bukan dari pengeluarannya sendiri. Samaada amerika membonceng israel atau israel yang membonceng amerika tidak pasti. Memang benar kata kamu, yang pasti amerika dan israel dari mula mahu memporaperandakan negara arab.

badmotha wrote:Maka solusi arab: TEROR negara2 lain dan langgarlah HAM sebanyak-banyaknya sehingga dihancurkan sekalian oleh masy. dunia! hooray! :lol:


Kamu juga sedar sekarang bahawa tindakkan terroris arab itu adalah tindak balas kepada tindakan amerika dan israel yang mahu memporaperandakan negara mereka terlebih dahulu. Itu mempertahankan diri namanya. We now know the root of the problem/conflict.

badmotha wrote:Your Prophet Muhammad is just a poor and distubed man who married rich OLD widow for MONEY. how lazy is that? He then became caravan raider to funds his insane faith and fueled many poor arabs with hatred towards their own Jewish employer. He was a common bandit leader who often destroys, rob, and raped yahudi clans for POWER, MONEY, and WOMAN.
do you still want me to show you these outrageus behaviors in sahih hadist? :lol:


Are you referring to the same Nabi Muhammad SAW who with his family only had a couple of dates and some of milk for supper for most nights and sometimes nothing at all before going to sleep ?

Or are you referring to the Nabi Muhammad who WAS NOT living in a palace/castle but a simple small house and did not leave anything (worldly) when he died at the height of the Islamic era?


badmotha wrote:Yes! Muslim immigrants are so stupid, that they are only good for cleaning toilets and do other shitty jobs for money. Now this ungrateful muslim complain about it and foolishly express how lazy their employer are by not cleaning their own toilet themselves! sounds familiar isnt it?
Soon Muslim will wage a war against those "rich and lazy kafir", just like their beloved prophet does!....hehehe...British citizen and officials beware!!!...kick them while you can!


Not responding. OOT - nothing to do with "yahudi vs arab".
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Postby Adadeh » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:51 pm

But does buying a land give the jews the right to establish a new state? From my example before, obviously NOT.

You told me earlier that if you bought a land from Indonesia, it doesn't mean you have the right to establish a new state. Yes, you are right, because Indonesia is a sovereign country. There was no sovereign country in Palestine at the time the Jews bought the land. Therefore, it is the Jews' right to do whatever they want with the land they already legally purchased!! If the Palestians/Arabs didn't want to loose the land, they shouldn't sell it in the first place. Besides, they are still welcome to stay over there afterward. Their health improve after the Jews take good care of the land.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... mf2.html#a
The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943

At the beginning the Arabs mocked Israel for purchasing such a band land, but then Jews planted 40.000 trees and they were all flourished, the Jews made the land furtile and productive. They changed the dessert into comfortable place to live. The Arabs were unable to produce good things out of the land, but the Jews changed that completely. Now after everything went well because of the hard work of the Jews, suddenly the Arabs and Palestinians wanted to claim the land back.

According Sheikh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi, Director of the Cultural Institute of the Italian Islamic Community, the hatred toward the Jews and Israel never exist among the Arabian people until after the Saudis family ruled the Arabia and spread the Wahhabism worldwide. Wahhabism is a totalitarian cult which stands for terror, massacre of civilians and for permanent war against Jews, Christians and non-Wahhabi Muslims. The influence of Wahhabism in the contemporary Arab world is such that many Arab Muslims are wrongly convinced that, in order to be a good Muslim, one must hate Israel and hope for its destruction.

He also said this:
I find in the Qur'an that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle therein (Qur'an, Sura 5:21) and that before the Last Day He will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of their Land, gathering them from different countries and nations (Qu'ran, Sura 17:104). Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe that opposing the existence of the State of Israel means opposing a Divine decree.

Although I don't believe in Qur'an, I agree with what Palazzi said. The Jews never completely left the land. The Jewish population were around 470,000 between World War I and World War II, while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. So, it's not true that the Jews suddenly came and took over the land from Arab Palestinians.

I remember before 2001, there was peaceful moments for years between the Israel and Paletine. Then Ariel Sharon visited al-Aqsa and since then the suicide bombers started to attack Israel. Sometimes they were 2 to 3 suicide attacks in a day. It excallated day by day. Everyday people got killed in Israel. The Palestian and Arab countries once again try to commit a new war against Israel but as they have been defeated in the past, the Arabs will be defeated again.

The fact that they are many happy Arabs live in Israel right now shows that the Israelis government doesn't treat them badly or try to get rid of them from Israel even during war against the Palestine. You can quote a negative line or two from the Israelis leaders in the past as you like but that don't portray the current condition of the Arabs in Israel now and then. The Arabs need to know that no matter what, Israel dan Jews have the right to own the land of their forefathers.

It is an ADMISSION (not an opinion). Who ever heard of agreeing or not agreeing on an ADMISSION ?

I asked your opinion about his comment that the Jewish God is different that the Arabian God. I mentioned that quote specifically in my previous posting. I want to know whether you agree or not if the Jewish God is different than the Arabs God, just like David b. Gurion said? Just answer yes or no. Why so complicated?
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Postby spiderweb » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:12 am

Tidak sama! Yahwe emang bener-bener ada, sedangkan auoh cuman isapan jempol onta muh aja.

liat aja orang yahudi gak pernag ngebom bunuh diri sambil teraik: Yahwe maha besar!

tapi di mana-ama muslim teraik2: auoh akbar!

kenapa?
Ngapain Tuhan yang benar pake dibela mati-matian sampe bunuh diri segala. Cuman tuhan yang gak exist aja yang perlu dibela sampe mati. 8)
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Postby anti islam » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:06 am

Setuju Bro ama pendapat lo...
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Postby Adadeh » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:12 am

ali514L
Lihat!!! Bagaimana si domba buta mengikuti si domba tolol

Wahai pengikut nabi yang bau domba dan kepalanya penuh kutu, terima kasih atas sumbangan ayat2. Ternyata Yahweh pun bisa murka, sama seperti Allah! Tapi sialnya Allah kalah melulu kalow melawan Yahweh! Kenapa Allah kok tidak kunjung menang membela negara2 Islam yang gede2 itu menyerang negara Israel yang kecil mungil?

Gue ganti ya nama negaranya biar lebih modern dan up to date:

Yeremia
50:21. Majulah ke negeri PALESTINA ARAB, majulah menyerangnya dan menyerang penduduk PALESTINA ARAB! Bunuhlah dan tumpaslah mereka, demikianlah firman YAHWEH, lakukanlah tepat seperti yang Kuperintahkan!

50:23 Betapa remuk redamnya dan hancur luluhnya martil seluruh bumi itu! Betapa PALESTINA ARAB menjadi kengerian di antara bangsa-bangsa!

50:24 Aku memasang jerat bagimu, dan memang engkau terjebak, hai PALESTINA ARAB, dengan tidak mengetahuinya. Engkau terdapat dan memang engkau tertangkap, sebab engkau telah menantang YAHWEH.

50:29 Kerahkanlah penembak-penembak melawan PALESTINA ARAB, semua orang pemanah! Berkemahlah mengepungnya, supaya jangan ada yang lolos! Balaslah dia setimpal dengan perbuatannya, lakukanlah kepadanya tepat seperti yang dilakukannya sendiri! Sebab ia bertindak kurang ajar terhadap TUHAN, terhadap Yang Mahakudus, YAHWEH Israel.

Palestina Arab juga bisa diganti sama negara2 Arab lainnya yang beraninya cuman main keroyok melawan Israel, tapi udah gitu TIDAK PERNAH MENANG: Arab Saudi, Syria, Irak, Mesir, United Emirat Arab, dll yang ngaku Arab dan mau menghancurkan Israel!!
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Postby spiderweb » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:31 am

Adadeh wrote:ali514L
Lihat!!! Bagaimana si domba buta mengikuti si domba tolol

Wahai pengikut nabi yang bau domba dan kepalanya penuh kutu, terima kasih atas sumbangan ayat2. Ternyata Yahweh pun bisa murka, sama seperti Allah! Tapi sialnya Allah kalah melulu kalow melawan Yahweh! Kenapa Allah kok tidak kunjung menang membela negara2 Islam yang gede2 itu menyerang negara Israel yang kecil mungil?

Gue ganti ya nama negaranya biar lebih modern dan up to date:

Yeremia
50:21. Majulah ke negeri PALESTINA ARAB, majulah menyerangnya dan menyerang penduduk PALESTINA ARAB! Bunuhlah dan tumpaslah mereka, demikianlah firman YAHWEH, lakukanlah tepat seperti yang Kuperintahkan!

50:23 Betapa remuk redamnya dan hancur luluhnya martil seluruh bumi itu! Betapa PALESTINA ARAB menjadi kengerian di antara bangsa-bangsa!

50:24 Aku memasang jerat bagimu, dan memang engkau terjebak, hai PALESTINA ARAB, dengan tidak mengetahuinya. Engkau terdapat dan memang engkau tertangkap, sebab engkau telah menantang YAHWEH.

50:29 Kerahkanlah penembak-penembak melawan PALESTINA ARAB, semua orang pemanah! Berkemahlah mengepungnya, supaya jangan ada yang lolos! Balaslah dia setimpal dengan perbuatannya, lakukanlah kepadanya tepat seperti yang dilakukannya sendiri! Sebab ia bertindak kurang ajar terhadap TUHAN, terhadap Yang Mahakudus, YAHWEH Israel.

Palestina Arab juga bisa diganti sama negara2 Arab lainnya yang beraninya cuman main keroyok melawan Israel, tapi udah gitu TIDAK PERNAH MENANG: Arab Saudi, Syria, Irak, Mesir, United Emirat Arab, dll yang ngaku Arab dan mau menghancurkan Israel!!


nih buktinya bahwa auoh itu gak ada.

perang 6 hari tahun 1967

The Quickest War

No amount of warning, however shrill, ever quite prepares a people for the air-raid siren's scream. The first wail is always difficult to believe. In Cairo, last week, it scarcely disturbed the morning bustle of the bazaar, or the gossip of black-clad women clucking along the banks of the muddy Nile. No matter that only the night before, President Gamal Abdel Nasser had welcomed Iraq to the Egypto-Jordanian alliance against Israel, and proclaimed: "We are so eager for battle in order to force the enemy to awake from his dreams and meet Arab reality face to face." Fixed in their own routine, the residents of Nasser's capital listened to the unfamiliar sound of the siren and continued - for a time - to go about their business.

In Tel Aviv, Israel's largest city, the reaction was much the same - and with better reason. Only days before, new Defense Minister Moshe Dayan, the dashing, one-eyed "Hero of Sinai," had said the time was not ripe to strike at the Arab forces ominously gathering around the Jewish homeland. "It is either too early or too late," he said. "Either we should have reacted right away, or we should wait and see what are the results of diplomacy." Since the choice was obviously to wait and see, when the first sirens sounded, most Tel Avivians thought it was a drill. A few dutifully ambled to shelters; others merely scanned the cloudless skies and shrugged.

This was no drill. In stunning pre-dawn air strikes across the face of the Arab world, Israeli jets all but eliminated Arab airpower - and with it any chance of an Arab victory. Without air cover, tanks and infantry under the clear skies of the desert offered little more than target practice. In a few astonishing hours of incredibly accurate bombing and strafing, Israel erased an expensive decade of Russian military aid to the Arab world.

Hardly a Crater. Streaking in ahead of the dawn, the first waves of Israeli Mirage-3 fighter-bombers simultaneously destroyed four Egyptian airbases in the Sinai Peninsula, site of Nasser's massive buildup against Israel in the past month. Some 200 of Nasser's frontline fighters, mostly Russian-built MIG 21s, were caught and destroyed on the ground. At almost the same time, Israeli jets hit Arab bases in Jordan, Syria and Iraq. They swept in from the sea to hit Egyptian bases deeper inside Egypt; and after landing only long enough to refuel, they hammered away until 25 of the most vital fields in the Arab world lay smoking. So expert were the Israeli pilots that they seldom seemed to waste a bomb, a rocket or bullet. Their reconnaissance photos showed plane after plane smashed and burning - with hardly a crater in the runways or the level sands surrounding the targets.

By Monday night, the end of the firs day's fighting, some 400 warplanes of five Arab nations had been obliterated. Egypt alone lost 300, Syria 60, Jordan 35, Iraq 15, Lebanon at least one. The cost to Israel's 400-fighter air force: 19 planes and pilots, mostly downed by ground fire.

Inevitably, the fact that so many Arab planes were trapped in their parking area - strung out wingtip to wingtip - suggested that Israel must have struck the first blow. The stunned Arabs, of course, said that it had, and Moscow angrily concurred. But, as Israel first told it, the Jewish jets scrambled only after early-warning radar picked up several waves of Arab planes headed straight for Israel. At the same time, a massive Egyptian armored column was reported to be rolling out of its base at El Arish and steering toward the Israel border.

Historians may argue for years over who actually fired the first shot or dropped the first bomb. But the Realpolitik of Israel's overwhelming triumph has rendered the question largely academic. Ever since Israel was created 19 years ago, the Arabs have been lusting for the day when they could destroy it. And in the past month, Nasser succeeded for the first time in putting together an alliance of Arab armies ringing Israel; he moved some 80,000 Egyptian troops and their armor into Sinai and elbowed out the U.N. buffer force that had separated the antagonists for a decade. With a hostile Arab population of 110,000,000 menacing their own of 2,700,000, the Israelis could be forgiven for feeling a fearful itch in the trigger finger. When Nasser closed the Gulf of Aqaba, a fight became almost inevitable.

Death in Zagazig. It was radio, rather than air-raid sirens, that delivered the full realization of war to the people on both sides. A full hour after the first sirens and some four hours after the attack, Radio Cairo got around to announcing the Israeli air raids, and then the martial music and martial pep talks began. "Our people have been waiting 20 years for this battle," roared Cairo. "Now they will teach Israel the lesson of death! The Arab armies have a rendezvous in Israel!"

The first day's battle bulletins teemed with false reports of victory, including the claim of 86 Israeli planes shot down. At each fresh bit of wishful reporting, the Cairo mobs that were gathered around transistor radios on every street corner erupted in excited yells and jubilant dances. They chanted such ditties as "We shall fight, we shall fight, our beloved Nasser; we are behind you to Tel Aviv!" Whenever black puffs of antiaircraft fire blossomed above the horizon, crowds clinging precariously to trucks careened off towards the action, hoping to see a captured Israeli pilot. Radio Cairo reported that one downed pilot had pulled his pistol to threaten a band of fellahin in the delta town of Zagazig; the fellahin chopped him to pieces with their field axes. As night fell, thousands of youth volunteers, self-consciously aware of their new authority, poured into the streets to enforce a complete blackout on the capital.

Much the same mixture of exhilaration and invective marked the first flush of war in the other Arab capitals. "Kill the Jews!" screamed Radio Baghdad. A Syrian commander offered the rash prediction to radio listeners that "we will destroy Israel in four days." In Damascus, schools were closed, more in celebration than precaution against air raids, and schoolchildren, singing rhythmically, filled sandbags and placed them around public buildings. Having no prepared shelters, the Syrians hastily converted two discotheques. In Beirut, supplies of laundry bluing, vegetable dye and blue paint quickly ran out as drivers rushed to darken their headlights. The nouveau-modern Phoenicia Hotel painted all its windows on the first five floors in blue so that some of its guests could have light during the blackout.

Ice-Cream Trucks. Tel Aviv's residents got the news only 30 minutes after the first air-raid siren, as Radio Kol Israel interrupted its regular broadcast to announce that heavy fighting had begun against "Egyptian armored and aerial forces which moved against Israel." Lively Jewish folk tunes, rousing Israeli pioneer songs and stirring military marches, including the theme song from The Bridge on the River Kwai, filled the air waves until Defense Minister Dayan came on. His message, like the man, was economical and blunt, concluding with: "Soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, on this day our hopes and security are with you."

Only three-fourths of Israel's reserves were mobilized when war began. Now the radio read out the code names of the remaining units: Love of Zion, Close Shave, Men of Work, Alternating Current, Open Window, Good Friends. Throughout the tiny nation, youths and middle-aged men scrambled into the streets, half in uniform, half in mufti, bundles and knapsacks thrown over their shoulders as they headed for their prearranged secret rendezvous with buses.

The buses used to deliver the reservists to their units in the field were often reserves too: laundry trucks, ice-cream trucks, even taxis and private cars drafted along with Israel's men and women. All were elements of a superbly organized and functioning system that Major General Dayan helped to create between 1953 and 1956 when he was Israeli Chief-of-Staff. Israeli tanks, each manned by a single regular of Israel's 50,000-man standing army, waited in convenient tank parks for the two or three reservists required to complete each crew. The tanks were ready to move out, complete with helmets, razors and toothbrushes. Each crew has been assigned battle sectors, rendezvous points and objectives. Israeli Intelligence had tracked the Arab enemy to the last desert dune. The system worked so well that Israel was able to field a fighting force of 235,000 men within 48 hours.

Trapping the Remnant. Modern desert warfare is essentially tank warfare supported by infantry and aided by air. At the start of the war, both Israel and Egypt had some 1,000 tanks each. The Israelis' were largely American and British; Nasser's were Russian, like most of his other equipment. Some 800 on each side squared off to battle for the Sinai Peninsula, a hell's amphitheater of ankle-deep, choking velvet sand broken by the ocher slag heaps of hills and occasional grey-green scrub.

There, as in the air, the Israeli tactics were based on surprise and speed. They were the same tactics Dayan had employed in his 1956 Sinai campaign that sent the Arabs scrambling barefoot for home within 100 hours. "The enemy will be given no time to reorganize after the assault, and there will be no pause in the fighting," he wrote in his reconstruction of that war, Diary of the Sinai Campaign. "We shall organize separate forces for each of the main objectives, and it will be the task of each force to get there in one continuous battle, one long breath to fight and push on, fight and push on, until the objective is gained."

Israel's main objectives in the Sinai last week were much the same as they were in 1956: to break the back of the massed Arab armor on its borders, then to sprint south to seize Sharm el Sheikh on the heights that control the Strait of Tiran, then west to the edge of the Suez Canal, trapping the remnants of Egypt's forces. To be sure, no one expected the fight to move so swiftly this time. The word was that with Russian help, Nasser had vastly improved his armies. In addition, he had the advantage of Dayan's Diary, which not only recapitulated in precise detail every element of Israeli tactics and strategy, it even provided a critique of what the Israelis and Egyptians had done wrong last time.

But Nasser had apparently not read Dayan; nor had he studied Santayana, who observed that "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Thundering down the same roads, blasting and overrunning the same Egyptian positions, the Israelis repeated almost exactly what they had done in 1956 - the only difference was that this time the job took only half as long. From Kerem Shalom in the north to El Kuntilla in the south, Israeli Centurion tanks, halftracks and field guns, plus convoys of infantrymen in sand-colored fatigues, pounded across from the Negev into Sinai in the blazing morning sunlight. In some places, the Egyptians had built their fortifications smack against the Israeli border; there, in hand-to-hand fighting, the Israelis drove them out. While the pushing Israeli ground troops forced the Egyptians back, Israeli jets roamed the skies virtually unchallenged, bombing and strafing at will. Within two days, the Israelis had knocked out or captured 200 of Nasser's tanks, and were deep in Sinai. One prong of their attack curled northward and occupied the Gaza Strip, site of Egyptian artillery and mortars and the vast unkempt barracks that housed the rabid, ragtag refugee Palestinian Liberation Army. Israelis wasted little time weeding out the toughest of the Arab commandos and terrorists, carting them off to prisoner-of-war stockades erected deep inside the Negev Desert.

Hathaway Patch. Amid the swirl of battle orders, Moshe Dayan took a few minutes off to be officially installed as Israel's Defense Minister. He had been on the job for six eventful days before Premier Levi Eshkol actually administered the oath of office. And even then, neither he nor Israel really thought the ceremony was necessary. His country was fighting for its life, and the tough general in the black eyepatch was clearly Israel's first and only choice. Dayan is as much a sabra as an Israeli can be. He was born on May 20, 1915, in the first Jewish kibbutz established in Palestine. When he was seven, his Russian émigré parents moved the family to a moshav, a cooperative farm where, unlike a kibbutz, the members own their land. Moshe liked both farming and books, but he soon found himself learning the arts of war as well. The British sent him to prison in 1939 for belonging to a unit of the Haganah, the Jewish underground.

He was released two years later to work as a scout for the Australians against the Vichy French in Syria. During a fire fight, a bullet drove his binoculars into the left side of his face, destroying an eye, which he has kept covered ever since with a Hathaway-style black patch. Despite his wound, Dayan was eventually back in action, leading the Haganah commandos in 1948. Soon after, he took command of the Jerusalem front in Israel's first war with the Arabs. In 1953, he was made Chief of Staff, and he taught the Israeli army his uncompromising philosophy of battle - speed, emphasis on surprise and night assaults - the attributes that led to victory in 1956, and again last week.

Only a year later, he retired to study politics. He joined Ben-Gurion's Cabinet as Minister of Agriculture, where he proved every bit as tough a professional as he had been in the army. Against determined opposition, he broke up the large dairy cooperatives, which he felt were not operating in the nation's best economic interest. He seemed on the way to eventual premiership. Then, when Ben-Gurion resigned and left the ruling Mapai party, Dayan followed; he became a Knesset member of B-G's splinter Rafi party.

Fiercely independent, and an outspoken iconoclast, Dayan was a success at every job he tried. But the profession of arms is his first love. He went back into uniform last week with calm confidence. If he had any complaint, it was that the desk-bound duties of a Defense Minister kept him from spending as much time as he would have liked with his troops; there was too much paper work waiting in his command bunker in Jerusalem. Even so, at least once a day he motored, flew or helicoptered to inspect some military field position. He wanted to see for himself that every aspect of the war was being handled properly. For this time Israel was involved in far more than a Sinai campaign.

Lovelier Windows. At 11 a.m. on the first day of battle in response to a plea from Nasser, Jordan opened a second front. Mortar and artillery shells rumbled down from the heights of Arab Jerusalem to splatter the Israeli sector of the divided city. Longer-range guns reached across Israel's narrow waist to hit the outskirts of Tel Aviv, and Syrian guns opened up on northern Israeli towns from the hills overlooking the Sea of Galilee. But it was Jerusalem, the Israeli capital, that took the worst damage the Arabs inflicted on the Jews in the whole war. Most of the city's residents spent the next two days of constant bombardment in underground shelters. Even with only essential civilians venturing above ground, more than 500 were killed and wounded in the massive Jordanian shelling.

No part of the city was spared. Shells hit near Premier Eshkol's home and in the garden of the King David Hotel. The glass panes in the Israel Museum were blasted out, and the Isaiah Scroll, most complete of all the Dead Sea Scrolls, was hastily moved into its underground vault. Most of the famed Chagall stained-glass windows in the Hadassah Medical Center's synagogue were taken down in time, but a hole was blasted in one. Wrote Chagall from France: "I am not worried about the windows, only about the safety of Israel. Let Israel be safe and I will make you lovelier windows."

As darkness descended on the Judean hills, the Israelis moved to the attack. Swept-wing French jets, the Star of David gleaming in blue and white on their wings, swooped down on Jordanian positions around the city in a spectacular exhibition of night bombing that left the skies red with flames. Two armored columns snaked out and around the Old City of Jerusalem. Within its ancient walls are nestled the holy sites of three world religions, and Israeli gunners and bombers had carefully spared it. The northern column fought its way to the commanding height of Mount Scopus. The southern column swept south, moving inexorably from hill to hill despite stubborn Jordanian Arab League resistance, until the Old City was encircled.

Next night Israeli commandos prepared a dawn attack into the Old City itself. But most of the Jordanian troops defending it had slipped away, leaving only sniper resistance as one Israeli unit entered through St. Stephen's Gate and a second drove through the Damascus Gate. By 10 a.m., the conquerors stood before the great boulders of the Wailing Wall, the only remnant of the Second Temple, that for 1,897 years has been the symbol of Jewish national hope - and despair. For all the sensational - and far more important military victories won in Sinai, nothing so elated the Israelis as the capture of the Biblical city of Jerusalem. Said the tough commando leader who took the Wall: "None of us alive has ever seen or done anything so great as he has done today." And there by the Wall, he broke down and wept.

Curious Footnote. One by one, other Biblical towns fell to the advancing Israelis - Jericho, Hebron, Bethlehem - until they had seized all of Hussein's kingdom west of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea. Unlike their Egyptian brethren in Sinai, King Hussein's legionnaires fought stubbornly and with discipline. But as in Sinai, the Israelis' absolute mastery of the air meant ultimate Arab defeat. All day the jets wheeled into steep dives to drop bombs and napalm canisters on stubborn pockets of Jordanian resistance. Unaware of the extent of Egypt's air losses, Hussein could not believe that the Israeli air force alone could so blacken the sky on his own Jordanian front. Thus it was partially understandable that for a while, at least, he backed up Nasser's claim that the U.S. and British planes had joined in Israel's attack.

Nasser almost surely knew better. But he was desperate to find an excuse for the Arab debacle, and he probably hoped that by implicating the U.S. and Britain he might persuade Moscow to come to his rescue. He never had a chance. Russian ships monitoring the U.S. air movements in the Mediterranean knew from their own radar that no U.S. or British planes had been involved. The Russian ambassador in Cairo went to Nasser and bluntly told him so. With nothing more to lose, Nasser continued his big lie, triggering the breaking off of diplomatic relations by seven Arab nations with the U.S. and touching off demonstrations against U.S. and British embassies all over the Arab world.

Just how Nasser pressured Hussein into backing his phony air-attack ploy will surely become one of history's more curious footnotes. Israel monitored and tape-recorded a radio conversation between Nasser and Hussein on the second day of the war, and released the dialogue two days later. The voices were unmistakably those of Nasser and the King; neither bothered to deny it. A sampling of their talk:
Nasser: Hello - will we say the U.S. and England or just the U.S.?
Hussein: The U.S. and England.
Nasser: Does Britain have aircraft carriers?
Hussein: (Answer unintelligible.)
Nasser: By God, I say that I will make an announcement and you will make an announcement and we will see to it that the Syrians will make an announcement that American and British airplanes are taking part against us from aircraft carriers. We will stress the matter, and we will drive the point home.

Later, Hussein admitted that the "vast umbrella" over Jordan had been entirely Israeli. Nasser, however, stuck to his story to the end, insisting that "three times as many" planes as Israel possessed had engaged the Arab forces.

Disappointed Troopers. To the south of Israel, Nasser's soldiers were having considerably more trouble sticking to their guns. By Wednesday night, the third day of war, all Israel brimmed with the sense of victory. As Dayan's chief of staff, Major General Yitzhak Rabin, summed it up succinctly: "We have inflicted almost total destruction on the Egyptian army, delivered a crushing blow to the Jordanian army, captured most of the relevant parts of the Sinai Peninsula and the west bank of the Jordan, and we have destroyed almost totally the air forces of four countries." Eager young Israeli paratroopers prepared for a jump assault on Sharm el Sheikh, only to be advised that the Israeli navy had arrived first - and the Egyptians had fled. The disappointed troopers disembarked like tourists from planes that landed unopposed on the Egyptian airstrip.

Next day, as Israeli troops captured the west bank of the Suez Canal, Jordan broke ranks and accepted the U.N. cease-fire that Moscow had been desperately trying to arrange for three days to save the Arabs from total disaster. The Egyptians fought one final tank battle at Suez in a frantic attempt to open a retreat path for what was left of their 80,000-man ground force in Sinai; then they, too, agreed to the cease-fire. Syria joined the chorus only a few hours later.

But Syria was not to be let off quite that easily. With each side claiming that the cease-fire had been violated by the other, Israel turned its full and angry attention to the nation that, by provoking terrorist raids and egging Nasser on, had probably done the most to create the crisis. Despite the natural advantage of the terrain they occupied, the Syrians were driven off the heights of Galilee as Israel extended its conquests 15 miles from the border. Israeli tanks and planes fought all the way to the outskirts of Damascus.

The Hebrew Version. Cairo received the news of the cease-fire in stunned and sullen silence. Extra police turned out at key points where demonstrators normally rally, but no one in the city seemed in the mood for demonstrating. Police moved swiftly through the empty streets taking down the anti-Israel slogans and banners that had festooned the city since Nasser's buildup began last month. Of the Arab alliance, only Algeria, which sent 36 MIGs too late to aid Nasser, vowed to fight on - presumably because the Algerians had not fought at all and were safely out of Israel's deadly reach.

Tel Aviv, however, was a different world. Suddenly it became a city of blue and white flags, fluttering from tall poles, flying from auto aerials, draped from terraces overlooking the sparkling sea. The beaches filled up with bathers and paddle-ball players; occasional soldiers, the dust of the desert still clinging to their boots, thumbed rides homeward on brief furloughs; concerts, chorales and cruises all resumed their schedules.

Jerusalem's Mandelbaum Gate, once a grim passageway into no-man's land, became just another street intersection, save for bands of religious Jews in their black hats and long coats who gathered to cheer every Israeli vehicle rolling out of the Old City. The sentimental Israeli city bus cooperative put its No. 9 bus to Mount Scopus back into operation; it had been saving the number for that particular route ever since the last run was made in 1948. Jerusalem Mayor Teddy Kolleck called his municipal council into session to approve a $50 million fund "to rebuild the Eternal City of Jerusalem." Like Dayan and Eshkol and every other Israeli who could possibly manage it, Ben-Gurion visited the Wailing Wall. "This is the greatest moment of my life," he said, then frowned as he noticed that the Jordanian sign on the wall was in English and Arabic. He asked the soldiers to take it down and replace it with a Hebrew version, fussing at them all the while not to damage the stones.

No Clearance. Though at the outset of the fighting Eshkol had asserted that his country had no territorial ambitions, the magnitude of Israel's victory began to temper that resolution. Dayan himself said of the Old City on its capture: "We have returned to our holiest of holy places, never to depart again." Nor did he have to add that Israel was not likely to let Sharm el Sheikh fall back into Arab hands to renew the possibility of another blockade of the Gulf of Aqaba. It was equally clear to all concerned that taking the heights of Galilee permanently from the Syrian' would remove the longstanding Arab threat to Israel's Jordan water supply. Holding fast to the west bank of the Suez would guarantee the right of passage to Israeli shipping, denied by Nasser since 1956.

In the flush of a victory that surprised even Dayan and his officers ("I thought it would take a day or two longer, Chief-of-Staff Rabin said laconically), the Israelis are clearly not yet sure what to do with their spoils. Indeed, they hardly had time to count the full cost of their victory - or of the Arab defeat. Casualty figures, as yet, are fragmentary, but the few days of desert warfare may well have accounted for more dead than a whole year's fighting in Vietnam. And historians will be a long time calculating the price in Arab morale, to say nothing of Russia's tremendous loss of face as it stood helplessly by, watching its expensive Middle Easter adventure being ground to dust by th advancing Israelis. Among the major Israeli spoils were several captured Russian SAM missiles.

What seems certain now is that, for the moment at least, Israel is the absolute master of the Middle East; it need take orders from no one, and can dictate its own terms in the vacuum of big-power inaction, U.N. fecklessness, and Arab impotence.

How did Israel manage to win so big so quickly? Much of the answer can found in the almost incredible lack of Arab planning, coordination and communications. Despite their swift defeat in 1956, this time the Arabs seemed to expect a long, leisurely war of attrition. Though two squadrons of Algerian MIG-21s arrived, they were a fatal 24 hours too late because Egyptian commanders had failed to instruct them which airbase to head for. In retrospect, it might have been even worse if they had arrived in time for the Israeli raids. Five planeloads of Moroccan troops actually got to Cairo, but five others were grounded in Libya because Egypt had not given them clearance to enter Egyptian airspace. More than 100 truckloads of Algerian troops crossed southern Tunisia on the way to the Sinai front, which crumbled long before they arrived. Tunisian troops ready to move for Nasser were never asked for by Cairo.

The Third Temple. Though the destruction of Arab airpower played the largest part in turning the battle, the Arabs' field performance was nothing to write home about. Their Russian-trained officer corps was a disaster; it fought far better with words than with weapons. Of all the Arab troops, only the Jordanians handled themselves ably and well - and paid for it with what Hussein called "tremendous losses" that included as many as 15,000 dead. Lebanon fired not a shot at Israeli ground forces during the entire war; as they manned their border positions, its soldiers played a backgammon-like game called tricktrack and watched the Syrians and Israelis trade shellfire. Breast-beating to the contrary, Syrian ground forces made no significant move to relieve the pressure on Jordan and Egypt. Few Arab pilots had a chance to show their skills; and those that did came out second best. The Israelis shot down 50 Arab fighters while losing only three. Arab field communications were so bad that Egypt was soon reduced to sending messages to its men in Sinai via Radio Cairo. Arab commanders lost two-way contact with whole units.

In the last analysis, though, it wa the Israeli military virtues of superb tactics and timing, its professionalism in the martial arts, that turned an Arab defeat into a classic rout likely to be studied with admiration at war colleges the world over. Beyond those tangibles there looms the dedication of the Jews, forged in thousands of years of dispersions and persecutions their inviolable determination to ensure modern Israel's survival as a nation. "Everybody fought for something that is a combination of love, belief and country," said Moshe Dayan at week's end. "If I may say so, we felt we were fighting to prevent the destruction of the third temple."

perang 4 kali and 4 kali juga kalah, padahal keroyokan lho, sampe algeria segala ngirim jet tempur.

Liat tulisan yang gua bold warna meah. Gua yakin ada divine intrvention sampe biblical towns itu akhisrnya bisa kembali lagi ke tangan pemiliknya yang sah.

Lha auoh kok diem aja sih? mana ada sesuatu yang hardy exist nglawan Tuhan? kalau auoh ada and emang so powerful kaya di kuran kok israel bisa menang perang terus?

perang 6 hari ini dijadiin bahan studi di institut2 perang negara maju sampe gitu hebatnya. cuman 6 hari aja man!

huahahahahahahaha....mau ditaruh di mana muka muslim2 ini? ada 3 kemungkinan:

1. yahudi terlalu pinter ato
2. arab terlalu **** ato
3. auoh cuman isapan jempol aja

masa sih umat kesayangannya berperang sampe 4 kali, keroyokan lagi, semuanya bisa kalah? auoh kok cuman merem aja? lagi asyik masyuk ama 72 bidadari?

siapa yang tolol? siapa yang mengikuti ajaran tolol?

source:
http://www.time.com/time/europe/timetra ... 70616.html
Last edited by spiderweb on Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Adadeh » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:49 am

ali18115:
Maybe you have not heard of the British Palestinian Mandate which was drawn up on 24th July 1922 when the British took over Palestine from Turkey as a result of WW1.

Yes, I've read it. The British was the imperialist who have no right to determine the faith of Israel, Jews and their forefather land. The imperialist divided the Arabian land, gave the best ones to whom they liket the most, and quite ignorance with the fate of minorities such as Jews.

WHO WILL FIGHT FOR THE FATE OF JEWS? The British? The Arabs? You? Of course the Jews themselves need to do the job if they want to be able to suvive. After all, it's their land! The British just came and colonized it, just like the Romans, the Persians, the Turks and any other imperialist before them. The Jews have been persecuted anywhere, all the time, just because they are Jews. Why should they let an Imperialist such as the British controled their fate, while the British themselves didn't give a **** if none of the Jews exist in this world?
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Postby ali18115 » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:17 am

Adadeh wrote:WHO WILL FIGHT FOR THE FATE OF JEWS? The British? The Arabs? You? Of course the Jews themselves need to do the job if they want to be able to suvive.


Thats axactly what the zionists realised but they know that they cant do it alone. They need help and support, and what better support other than that of the most powerful nation on earth today i.e. USA. All they need are propogandas and what better than to include religious issues but religious issue alone will not intrest the USA public since the USA public now has little faith in religion. So the zionists also used Human Rights issues to garner the USA public support and the horror of the holocust of WW2 breath again with a gust of renewed sympathies.

The zionists are even willing to compromise the jews religion and traditions by accepting/supporting the emerging judeo-christians for the sake of getting worldwide christians support fighting the arabs, potrayed as Muslims - the mutual old arch-enemy. The zionist suceeded in getting their allies to do their dirty work while they keep on churning the necessary propogandas. This not a new phenomena involving the jews as history tells us of a similar (but in a smaller scale) incident happened during the life of Nabi Muhammad SAW that lead to the assasination of a jew named Ka'b Ashraf.


Adadeh wrote:Why should they let an Imperialist such as the British controled their fate, while the British themselves didn't give a **** if none of the Jews exist in this world?


If only the same can be realized and said about the Red Indians and the Abroginies. But these minorities do not spread propogandas based on lies and religious issues to spark inter-nation and inter-religion conflicts. Neither do these minorities consider themselves as the only god chosen people, and every other human are just scums of the earth.
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Postby spiderweb » Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:55 pm

ali18115 wrote:
Adadeh wrote:WHO WILL FIGHT FOR THE FATE OF JEWS? The British? The Arabs? You? Of course the Jews themselves need to do the job if they want to be able to suvive.


Thats axactly what the zionists realised but they know that they cant do it alone. They need help and support, and what better support other than that of the most powerful nation on earth today i.e. USA. All they need are propogandas and what better than to include religious issues but religious issue alone will not intrest the USA public since the USA public now has little faith in religion. So the zionists also used Human Rights issues to garner the USA public support and the horror of the holocust of WW2 breath again with a gust of renewed sympathies.

The zionists are even willing to compromise the jews religion and traditions by accepting/supporting the emerging judeo-christians for the sake of getting worldwide christians support fighting the arabs, potrayed as Muslims - the mutual old arch-enemy. The zionist suceeded in getting their allies to do their dirty work while they keep on churning the necessary propogandas. [b]This not a new phenomena involving the jews as history tells us of a similar (but in a smaller scale) incident happened during the life of Nabi Muhammad SAW that lead to the assasination of a jew named Ka'b Ashraf.[/
b]


Adadeh wrote:Why should they let an Imperialist such as the British controled their fate, while the British themselves didn't give a **** if none of the Jews exist in this world?


If only the same can be realized and said about the Red Indians and the Abroginies. But these minorities do not spread propogandas based on lies and religious issues to spark inter-nation and inter-religion conflicts. [b]Neither do these minorities consider themselves as the only god chosen people, and every other human are just scums of the earth.[/b]


bukannya nabi lu yang tercinta TIDAK HANYA membunuh satu orang jews melainkan menyikat habis seluruh bani2-nya?

Terus apa bukti pernyataan lu yang kedua itu? kapan mereka ngomong kaya gitu? Bukankah itu hanya feeling lu aja?

justru islam yang merasa dirinya paling superior, pernah denger ungkapan yang paling terkenal dari CAIR?

'Islam tidak untuk sejajar dengan agama2 lain di dunia ini, karena islamlah yang paling superior'

cari sendiri source-nya di google, jangan malas. just type: CAIR

btw artikel gua kok belum ada comment-nya yah? apa pembelaan lu nih? bisa nerangin kenapa israel bisa menang perang 4 kali lawan arab2 yang maen keroyokan? kaya nabi-nya aja suka perang and keroyokan, sayngnya mereka lupa kalau ini dah bukan abad 7 lagi 8)

perang 4 kali and 4 kali juga kalah, padahal keroyokan lho, sampe algeria segala ngirim jet tempur.

Gua yakin ada divine intrvention sampe biblical towns itu akhisrnya bisa kembali lagi ke tangan pemiliknya yang sah.

Lha auoh kok diem aja sih? mana ada sesuatu yang hardy exist nglawan Tuhan? kalau auoh ada and emang so powerful kaya di kuran kok israel bisa menang perang terus?

perang 6 hari ini dijadiin bahan studi di institut2 perang negara maju sampe gitu hebatnya. cuman 6 hari aja man!

huahahahahahahaha....mau ditaruh di mana muka muslim2 ini? ada 3 kemungkinan:

1. yahudi terlalu pinter ato
2. arab terlalu **** ato
3. auoh cuman isapan jempol aja

masa sih umat kesayangannya berperang sampe 4 kali, keroyokan lagi, semuanya bisa kalah? auoh kok cuman merem aja? lagi asyik masyuk ama 72 bidadari?

siapa yang tolol? siapa yang mengikuti ajaran tolol?
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Postby Adadeh » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:30 am

ali18115:
They need help and support, and what better support other than that of the most powerful nation on earth today i.e. USA.

I fail to see why it is wrong in trying to find support from greater force. Every country does that in the name of friendship, partnership, allied forces, etc. Saudi Arabia does that too, and nobody complains about it. Remember the Gulf War? Kuwait was taken by Saddam and Saudi Arabia was the next target. Everybody know that both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia won’t stand a chance fighting against Iraq. They needed somebody stronger to help them. What’s wrong with that? Why it is okay if some Arabian countries get U.S. support but it’s not okay for Israel to have U.S. support?

ali18115:
So the zionists also used Human Rights issues to garner the USA public support and the horror of the holocust of WW2 breath again with a gust of renewed sympathies.

Almost nobody accepted Jews when they tried to leave Germany after WWII. They almost had no other place to go but Palestine. They have all the right to get sympathy from all over the world because of what they experienced. It’s their right to inform the Americans what have happened with millions of Jews in the German consentration camps. When the Kosovo war happened, many American Muslim organizations arranged exhibitions and public gatherings to show pictures and pass information of how Muslims being killed, tortured and killed by the Serbians. The Americans digested the information, they bought it and then Clinton organized and sent NATO troops to fight Milosovich.

ali18115:
But these minorities do not spread propogandas based on lies and religious issues to spark inter-nation and inter-religion conflicts.

There is nothing wrong when the Jews try to gain support by telling Americans exactly what happened with them in Germany during WWII. What they said was not a lie. Let the world knows about the hollocaust or genocide against the Jews and make sure it won’t happen again to anyone, including Red Indians, Aborigins, Kambodians, Armenians, Bangladesh.

If the Jews in Israel and the U.S. want to spread Judeo Christians believe, let them do that. The Arabs spread Islam all over the world and you don’t complain about that. Does Judeo Christianity advice their followers to smithe the necks and cut the fingers of non-Judeo Christians? NO. Does it advice their followers to force Jizya to non-believers? No. Does it promote tolerance, love, compassion toward other human beings? Yes. Does it follow the Golden rule? Yes. So, there is no harm in spreading this believe. Let the Americans see what kind of religion it is and let them make a decision whether or not they’d like to embrace it.

What I want to say is Israel and the Jews have to make sure they don’t experience another hollocaust and genocide. No more. It’s enough. If they have to spread their believe and find greater force to back up their country, so be it.

Talking about propagandas, don’t you realize that you are the victim of Arabian propaganda in the form of religion and politics? Muslims hate Jews because of Islam, because of what Muhammad said about the Jews. Look at the Muslims’ attitude in this Forum. When they mentioned about the colonialists, they always only talk about the Dutch with full of hatred, because the Dutch are Christians and Muhammad hated Christians too. They forget to mention the other colonialist such as Japanese who also very cruelly suppressed Indonesians in the past. If Japanese are Christian too, then the Muslim will hate them just as much as they hate the Dutch. Although Indonesians already experienced being colonized by the Japanese, they don’t have any problem forgiving the Japanese. On the other hand, most Indonesians never knew any Jew in their entire lives, let alone communicating with one, and Israel never colonize Indonesia, but still most Indonesian Muslims are so readily hate the Jews, sometimes even more than the Arabs. I know this very well because I have many Arabian friends who have strong sympathy toward Israel and Jews. They know the Arabian propaganda but they don’t buy it. On the other hand, you and most Indonesian Muslims embrace and inhale it and see it as the truth. Remember what Sheikh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi said, it’s all coming from the Wahhabism propaganda spread by Saudi Arabia.
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Postby ali18115 » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:20 am

Adadeh wrote:I fail to see why it is wrong in trying to find support from greater force. Every country does that in the name of friendship, partnership, allied forces, etc. Saudi Arabia does that too, and nobody complains about it. Remember the Gulf War? Kuwait was taken by Saddam and Saudi Arabia was the next target.


US made believe that Saudi Arabia was Saddam next target. Saudi Arabia was never a target by Saddam. Kuwait was a target because Iraq has never recoqnize Kuwait as an independant state, just as the case of Taiwan is to China.

Adadeh wrote:Everybody know that both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia won’t stand a chance fighting against Iraq. They needed somebody stronger to help them. What’s wrong with that? Why it is okay if some Arabian countries get U.S. support but it’s not okay for Israel to have U.S. support?


It was the US that rushed to support to protect there multi-billion investments. Friendship has very little to do with the US commitments. OIL was their main concern. Disruption of OIL supply to the US will be far more devastating to them. Lets not kid ourselves on why the US stood fast in the arab lands for decades. You think that the US will be there when the arab oil run dries in future? The US capitalists was not on a mission of "friendship" but only for the benefit of themselves while the oil is still flowing. The reason for the US "friendly" support for israel and the US "friendly" support for the arabs are based on two different "friendly" supports. Dont confuse them as the same.

Adadeh wrote:Almost nobody accepted Jews when they tried to leave Germany after WWII. They almost had no other place to go but Palestine.


Thats not true when many of the jews had immigrated to the US, Canada and UK. But the zionist knew too well that they will not be able to establish their own state there.

Adadeh wrote:When the Kosovo war happened, many American Muslim organizations arranged exhibitions and public gatherings to show pictures and pass information of how Muslims being killed, tortured and killed by the Serbians. The Americans digested the information, they bought it and then Clinton organized and sent NATO troops to fight Milosovich.


That was when the Kosovo war was still on-going at the time when the autrocities are being committed. Unlike the case of the zionist who are still keeping the hollocoust alive even after 65+ years on as an excuse to establish their own state and elligibility for support and aids from the rest of the world. The autrocities of the hollocoust was committed by a non-arab, non-Muslim european nation but 65+ years on it is the arab (Muslim implied) nations are being punished.

Adadeh wrote:There is nothing wrong when the Jews try to gain support by telling Americans exactly what happened with them in Germany during WWII. What they said was not a lie. Let the world knows about the hollocaust or genocide against the Jews and make sure it won’t happen again to anyone, including Red Indians, Aborigins, Kambodians, Armenians, Bangladesh.


Irrespective whether the hollocaust is a lie or not, was it the arab or the Muslim responsible for the jews hollocaust?

Adadeh wrote:Talking about propagandas, don’t you realize that you are the victim of Arabian propaganda in the form of religion and politics? Muslims hate Jews because of Islam, because of what Muhammad said about the Jews.


You have very little knowledge of Islam to be discussing Islam with me. In any case it is OOT, lets just stick to the topic i.e. "yahudi vs arab".
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Postby ali18115 » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:08 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/ ... 26,00.html

Secret British document accuses Israel

FO paper says international laws are being violated and peace jeopardised

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
Friday November 25, 2005
The Guardian

A confidential Foreign Office document accuses Israel of rushing to annex the Arab area of Jerusalem, using illegal Jewish settlement construction and the vast West Bank barrier, in a move to prevent it becoming a Palestinian capital.

In an unusually frank insight into British assessments of Israeli intentions, the document says that Ariel Sharon's government is jeopardising the prospect of a peace agreement by trying to put the future of Arab East Jerusalem beyond negotiation and risks driving Palestinians living in the city into radical groups. The document, obtained by the Guardian, was presented to an EU council of ministers meeting chaired by the foreign secretary, Jack Straw, on Monday with recommendations to counter the Israeli policy, including recognition of Palestinian political activities in East Jerusalem.

But the council put the issue on hold until next month under pressure from Italy, according to sources, which Israel considers its most reliable EU ally.

Israel has described a recommendation for moving EU meetings with the Palestinian Authority from Ramallah to East Jerusalem in recognition of the Arab claim as "negative occurrence". It claims the eastern part of Jerusalem it occupied in the 1967 war is part of its "indivisible capital". Almost all governments maintain embassies in Tel Aviv because they do not recognise the Israeli claim.

The document, drawn up by the British consulate in East Jerusalem as part of the UK's presidency of the EU, says Israeli policies are designed to prevent Jerusalem from becoming a Palestinian capital, particularly settlement expansion in and around the city. It says Mr Sharon's plan to link Jerusalem with the large Ma'ale Adumim settlement in the West Bank by building thousands of new homes "threatens to complete the encircling of the city by Jewish settlements, dividing the West Bank into two separate geographical areas".

It adds: "Israeli activities in Jerusalem are in violation of both its Roadmap (peace plan) obligations and international law."
The Foreign Office also concludes that the vast concrete barrier, which Israel asserts is a security measure, is being used to expropriate Arab land in and around the city. "This de facto annexation of Palestinian land will be irreversible without very large-scale forced evacuations of settlers and the re-routing of the barrier."

The document says stringent Israeli controls on the movement of Palestinians in and out of the city are an attempt to restrict Arab population growth. "When the barrier is completed, Israel will control all access to East Jerusalem, cutting off its Palestinian satellite cities of Bethlehem and Ramallah, and the West Bank beyond. This will have serious ... consequences for the Palestinians," it says.

"Israel's main motivation is almost certainly demographic ... the Jerusalem master plan has an explicit goal to keep the proportion of Palestinian Jerusalemites at no more than 30% of the total." All of this, the document says, greatly reduces the prospects of a two-state solution because a core demand of the Palestinians is for sovereignty over the east of the city.

"Palestinians are deeply alarmed about East Jerusalem," the document says. "They fear that Israel will 'get away with it', under the cover of disengagement. Israeli measures also risk radicalising the hitherto relatively quiescent Palestinian population of East Jerusalem."
The Israeli foreign ministry spokesman, Mark Regev, said: "Israel believes that Jerusalem should remain the united capital of Israel. At the same time Israel has committed itself that Jerusalem is one of those final status issues."
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Postby spiderweb » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:12 am

ali18115 wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1650426,00.html

Secret British document accuses Israel



so?
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Postby Adadeh » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:34 am

ali18115:
Kuwait was a target because Iraq has never recoqnize Kuwait as an independant state

Saddam attacked Kuwait because of several reasons:
(1) The Iraqi government accused the Kuwaitis of stealing 2.5 billion barrels of oil from its Rumaila oil fields by sliding drills into Iraqi oil pipelines. They had also accused Kuwait of exceeding OPEC oil production which had dropped the price of oil from $20 a barrel to $13 a barrel in the first six months of 1990.
(2) Oil had made Kuwait one of the richest and most progressive countries in the world. This desert land is one of the world's leading producers having over one-tenth of the world's known petroleum reserves. All of this was attractive and irritating to Saddam who would and did use a fraction of his army to attack and invade Kuwait in which it only took the Iraqi army 6 hours to reach the capital city. They had after their invasion about 19% of the world's known oil reserves.
(3) After the 8 year war with Iran over territorial disputes and religious rivalries between the Iranian Shiites and Iraqi Sunni factions, Iraq had a massive debt to many Arab nations including Kuwait." The rulers of these nations wanted some of their money back but Iraq thought they were ingrates and were ungrateful for defending the Arab emirs from the Iranian Islamic fundamentalism.
(4) Historically Iraq had claimed that it had a right to Kuwait. "They were jealous that Kuwait was in control of the two islands needed for a deep water shipping port:the Bubiyan and Warbah islands." These islands along with some parts of Kuwait were a part of Mesopotamia which the Ottoman Turks conquered. In 1961, Kuwait became independent and the Iraqis threatened to invade except that British troops kept the peace.

US made believe that Saudi Arabia was Saddam next target. Saudi Arabia was never a target by Saddam.

That’s not true. In 1991, it was quite evident that Saddam Hussein was becoming a military giant in the Middle East and therefore a threat to the stability of the entire region. His war with Iran was proof of this. Kuwait is the second largest source of petroleum in the Middle East and so Iraqi invasion of Kuwait sent the world oil market into a frenzy. Iraqi forces then gathered their forces on the border with Saudi Arabia, the second largest supplier of oil in the world. Why do you think Saddam gathered his forces near the Saudi Arabia’s border? Just to find a nice parking spot? If Saddam could topple Kuwait in just a couple of weeks, what would stop him from attacking Saudi Arabia who is just as weak and rich as Kuwait? What an easy yet profitable target to conquer.

OIL was their main concern. Disruption of OIL supply to the US will be far more devastating to them.

I never say oil was not the concern. What I tried to point out is countries have mutual relationships. They need one another, whether it is for oil (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait), same political believes (Israel with its democracy system), technology, arm force, global political influence (the U.S., Russia). Based on this mutual needs, countries build relationships regardless how shallow or sincere they are. The reason why I mentioned this is because you blame Israel for trying to have U.S. support or back up. But what’s wrong with that? Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait also did the same and you have no problem with that.

But the zionist knew too well that they will not be able to establish their own state there. ..

The best way not to repeat the same worst experience is for the Jews to have their own country.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... mf2.html#c
The gates of Palestine remained closed for the duration of the war, stranding hundreds of thousands of Jews in Europe, many of whom became victims of Hitler’s "Final Solution." After the war, the British refused to allow the survivors of the Nazi nightmare to find sanctuary in Palestine. On June 6, 1946, President Truman urged the British government to relieve the suffering of the Jews confined to displaced persons camps in Europe by immediately accepting 100,000 Jewish immigrants. Britain's Foreign Minister, Ernest Bevin, replied sarcastically that the United States wanted displaced Jews to immigrate to Palestine “because they did not want too many of them in New York”.
Some Jews were able to reach Palestine, many by way of dilapidated ships that members of the Jewish resistance organizations used to smuggle them in. Between August 1945 and the establishment of the State of Israel in May 1948, 65 “illegal” immigrant ships, carrying 69,878 people, arrived from European shores. In August 1946, however, the British began to intern those they caught in camps in Cyprus. Approximately 50,000 people were detained in the camps, 28,000 of whom were still imprisoned when Israel declared independence


Unlike the case of the zionist who are still keeping the hollocoust alive even after 65+ years on as an excuse to establish their own state and elligibility for support and aids from the rest of the world.

First, there is nothing wrong when Jews or Israel keep reminding the world about the Hollocaust to make sure it won’t happen again. The Muslim Serbs and victims of Kosovo war are allowed to do so too. As a matter of fact, when the Nazis generals complained what would the world think of if they exterminated the Jews in Europe, Hitler replied,"Who still remembered the genocide against the Armenian by the Turks?" The Armenian should be much more vocal about the genocide so that it won’t happen again. Let the whole world remember about the Hollocaust and other genocides FOREVER!!

Second, I already stated my explanation and backup my believe with information that Palestine land belong to Jews in Israel, and that the Jews never left the land completely. They inherited the land from their forefathers, and the Bible and Qur’an confirm this fact. They purchased it legally from the Palestians and/or Arabs, they didn’t get rid of the Arabs from that land, instead the Jews let the Arabs enjoy the good life in the land. It’s up to you if you don’t buy it but, for me, the truth is as clear as the sun.

Irrespective whether the hollocaust is a lie or not, was it the arab or the Muslim responsible for the jews hollocaust?

I never ever said that the Muslim world was responsible for the Hollocaust!! Where did you get this idea!? You see? Actually, it’s already in your head! You embeded that thought inside your mind. Where did it come from? From Wahhabi’s propaganda? From Muhammad and Qur’an? You see the Arabs as the victims while actually it’s the other way around. It’s the same with the way you see the fate of Bani Qurayza. You aren’t able to see that Muhammad did exactly the same thing like what Hitler did to the Jews. Or perhaps you actually have strong sympathy toward Hitler because of the Hollocaust, right?

You have very little knowledge of Islam to be discussing Islam with me.

You just want to shut me up because you are unable to analyze the role of Wahhabism and Saudi Arabia in spreading the hatred toward the Jews in Islamic world. When it’s about finding the source of your hatred toward the Jews and its relation with Islam & Muhammad, your brain suddenly stop working and you become intellectually dead. How can one conduct a discussion with an intellectually dead person?
Last edited by Adadeh on Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby registered » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:42 am

Aku mengikuti diskusi ini. Sebenarnya ada lagi fakta yang menunjukkan kehebatan yahudi dibanding arab. Tapi anehnya fakta itu tidak disebut-sebut dalam forum ini. Fakta itu adalah:
Yahudi pernah membunuh tuhannya orang kristen, sementara arab tidak pernah membunuh tuhan orang kristen.


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Postby Adadeh » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:02 am

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33569

TROUBLE IN THE HOLY LAND
Muhammad ordered
Muslims to kill Jews?
Palestinian academic says tradition makes it religious obligation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: July 15, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

The killing of Jews is a mandatory religious obligation established by Islam's founder Muhammad, according to a Muslim academic who spoke on Palestinian Authority television.

"Muhammad said in his Hadith: "The Hour [Day of Resurrection] will not arrive until you fight the Jews, [until a Jew will hide behind a rock or tree] and the rock and the tree will say: 'Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'" said Hassan Khader, founder of the Al Quds Encyclopedia.

Khader spoke during a lecture, broadcast Sunday, on what he describes as the war of the Jews against Palestinian "trees."

The program was monitored by Palestinian Media Watch, or PMW, an Israel-based group.

PMW director Itamar Marcus says Khader's statement was one of many instances in recent years of Palestinian religious leaders teaching publicly that this Hadith – part of Islamic traditions attributed to Muhammad – is a current obligation of Islam.

Marcus says these teachings challenge the common belief that the premise for negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians is over borders.

"Palestinian religious and academic leaders publicly teach that the Israel-Palestinian conflict is part of Islam's irreconcilable religious war against the Jews," he says.

"To justify this view," he adds, "Palestinians repeatedly cite Islamic sources to demand as religious doctrine, that Jews be hated, even demanding the killing of Jews as the will of Allah."

Marcus says "the continued expression of this PA worldview is most ominous."

"For by depicting redemption as dependent on Muslims' murder of Jews, the murder of Jews is being presented as mandatory religious obligation," he says.
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Postby Adadeh » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:10 am

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Yahudi pernah membunuh tuhannya orang kristen, sementara arab tidak pernah membunuh tuhan orang kristen.

Apa hubungannya ini dengan berdirinya negara Israel dan perseteruannya dengan negara2 Arab??

Apakah karena orang Yahudi membunuh Yesus lalu orang2 Arab merasa berhak membunuhi bani Qurayza? Apakah karena alasan itu orang Arab2 membunuhi orang2 Yahudi di seluruh dunia? Apakah tujuan pembunuhan itu karena orang Arab mau membela orang Kristen dan Tuhan mereka?
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Postby registered » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:44 am

Adadeh wrote:registered:
Yahudi pernah membunuh tuhannya orang kristen, sementara arab tidak pernah membunuh tuhan orang kristen.

Apa hubungannya ini dengan berdirinya negara Israel dan perseteruannya dengan negara2 Arab??

Apakah karena orang Yahudi membunuh Yesus lalu orang2 Arab merasa berhak membunuhi bani Qurayza? Apakah karena alasan itu orang Arab2 membunuhi orang2 Yahudi di seluruh dunia? Apakah tujuan pembunuhan itu karena orang Arab mau membela orang Kristen dan Tuhan mereka?


Aku cuma mau bilang, yahudi memang hebat di banding arab. Yahudi bisa bunuh tuhan.
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Postby registered » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:31 pm

Aku heran, kenapa orang kristen di sini suka membangga-banggakan dan membela yahudi? Apakah hanya sekedar untuk memojokkan arab dan orang islam? Padahal, kalau mereka sadar, orang yahudilah yang membunuh yesus. Dan lebih ironis lagi, orang yahudi yang mereka sanjung dan bela ini pun tidak bertuhankan pada yesus.

Aku heran..., aku heran....

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