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Prestasi yahudi vs arab

Benturan dan bentrokan antara Islam dengan agama-agama dan peradaban lain di seluruh penjuru dunia.

Postby Adadeh » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:13 pm

"I was very much in sympathy with why the Israelis built a wall here, and still am to a certain extent," he said. "But when you actually see where it is, you see that it's not for security, it's for making political statements. It's theft of land and I don't know how you can justify it on the grounds of anti-terrorism."


Whoa ... just a second here.

Ini pernyataan atas dasar apa dulu? Tidak ada keterangan dari Rev. David Lacy akibat pembangunan tembok itu terhadap serangan bom bunuh diri. Kalau dia mau jujur, seharusnya dia memberi keterangan berapa banyak bom bunuh diri yang terjadi SEBELUM dan SESUDAH pembangunan tembok.

Dia menuduh Israel membangun tembok itu for making political arguments. Ini pendapat pribadi atau pernyataan yang mewakili seluruh gereja di Scotland? Political statement apakah yang dimaksud? Kalau benar pembangunan tembok ini sekedar hanya untuk political statement, mengapa dibangunnya setelah Israel diserang bertubi-tubi setiap hari oleh pembom bunuh diri?
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Postby ali18115 » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:43 pm

Adadeh wrote:Whoa ... just a second here.

Ini pernyataan atas dasar apa dulu? Tidak ada keterangan dari Rev. David Lacy akibat pembangunan tembok itu terhadap serangan bom bunuh diri. Kalau dia mau jujur, seharusnya dia memberi keterangan berapa banyak bom bunuh diri yang terjadi SEBELUM dan SESUDAH pembangunan tembok.

Dia menuduh Israel membangun tembok itu for making political arguments. Ini pendapat pribadi atau pernyataan yang mewakili seluruh gereja di Scotland? Political statement apakah yang dimaksud? Kalau benar pembangunan tembok ini sekedar hanya untuk political statement, mengapa dibangunnya setelah Israel diserang bertubi-tubi setiap hari oleh pembom bunuh diri?


Why don't you go ask the good reverand himself?
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Postby Adadeh » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:38 am

Why don't you go ask the good reverand himself?

Why oh why? Because he obviously doesn't know what he is talking about. He doesn't know how it feels to live in a place bombarded by two or more sucide bombers every single day.

Where does he live? Far far away from Israel. So, one day he just happened to have an opportunity to visit Israel and saw the wall, and came out with this criticism without giving any better solution for the Israelis to save their people's lives. This stoopid Rev. obviously has no idea whatsoever how it feels to live among Muslims. When he already experiences this, I guarantee his opinion will be quite different.

The problem with Muslims is they feel oppressed anywhere where they don't rule the place. So Muslims of Palestine, Kashmir , Chechnya , China , Russia , India , Singapore , Australia and many other countries feel that they are being oppressed. Whenever a Muslim is living in a Kafir country and ruled by a Kafir, he/she immediately feels oppressed. Until a Muslim sovereign rules us, Muslims have every right to revolt.

Once the Muslims rule the place, they will oppress the non-Muslims in that place until they converted or get killed by them. If there is no non-Muslim left, then they will start to bicker with one another, shed more blood as usual, the Islamic way, just exactly like what their Profit advise them to do. There is no tolerance in Islam. No peace, no love, no compassion.
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Postby ali18115 » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:26 am

Adadeh wrote:
Why don't you go ask the good reverand himself?

Why oh why? Because he obviously doesn't know what he is talking about. He doesn't know how it feels to live in a place bombarded by two or more sucide bombers every single day.

Where does he live? Far far away from Israel.


So you are telling me yhat you know better because you happen to live near israel? And visit israel more often than the reverand did?

Adadeh wrote:So, one day he just happened to have an opportunity to visit Israel and saw the wall, and came out with this criticism without giving any better solution for the Israelis to save their people's lives. This stoopid Rev. obviously has no idea whatsoever how it feels to live among Muslims. When he already experiences this, I guarantee his opinion will be quite different.


Talk about freedom and free speech but your lack of respect calling everyone else stoopid whimsically is abusive and appalling. Reminds me of a brat in the kiddy playground.
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Postby ali18115 » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:53 am

Albert Einstein once declared :

"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state... My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power... I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain."

And how true the repercussions otherwise. In the name of sefishness and greediness, the zionist have over-done themselves at the expense of others in this world.

Read the whole article at : http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/ ... 29,00.html
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Postby Adadeh » Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:54 pm

So you are telling me yhat you know better because you happen to live near israel? And visit israel more often than the reverand did?

Nope. First, it's because I know how naive the Westerners can be when dealing with the Muslims and Islam. They thought that all major religions teach good moral guidance only. Look at what happened recently in French, Dutch, Germany, Australia, U.K. They allow so many Muslims to enter their countries without examining their distructive belief and now these nations have to pay their price. Second, I know how it feels to live among Muslims. It's like living near a TNT ready to explode by slightest heat at any moment.

Talk about freedom and free speech but your lack of respect calling everyone else stoopid whimsically is abusive and appalling. Reminds me of a brat in the kiddy playground.

Is this coming from someone who had called me with quite abusing and degrading names? What a hipocrete!

Albert Einstein once declared :

From that article, it is clear that, at the beginning, Eintein was reluctant with the idea of building a state of Israel. But eventually, he decided to help the Jews to build their nation by approaching Nehru to gain support in the U.N. assembly vote. Einstein supported his own people and the decision build the Jewish nation.

In the name of sefishness and greediness, the zionist have over-done themselves at the expense of others in this world.

Einstein explains how big is the state of Israel:
But at the end of the first world war, the Allies gave the Arabs 99% of the "vast, underpopulated territories" liberated from the Turks to satisfy their national aspirations and five independent Arab states were established. One per cent was reserved for the Jews "in the land of their origin".
It's their own land, it's a very small land. It's THEIR LAND.
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Postby ali18115 » Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:43 pm

Adadeh wrote:
So you are telling me yhat you know better because you happen to live near israel? And visit israel more often than the reverand did?

Nope. First, it's because I know how naive the Westerners can be when dealing with the Muslims and Islam.


Earlier you said the Reverand does not know what he is talking about because he is living far far away from israel. Now your are saying, as a Westerner, the Reverend is naive. What else will you be saying just to nagate the Reverend statement just like you always accused everyone else, I wonder.

Adadeh wrote:Second, I know how it feels to live among Muslims. It's like living near a TNT ready to explode by slightest heat at any moment.


Is "paranoia" the right word to use? Or are you also paranoid to the word "paranoia" ?

Adadeh wrote:Is this coming from someone who had called me with quite abusing and degrading names? What a hipocrete!


The Reverend called you names??? Now thats into the realm of fantasies.

Adadeh wrote:From that article, it is clear that, at the beginning, Eintein was reluctant with the idea of building a state of Israel. But eventually, he decided to help the Jews to build their nation by approaching Nehru to gain support in the U.N. assembly vote. Einstein supported his own people and the decision build the Jewish nation.


Yes he supported the jews but never the zionist. I can give you another imfamous quote by another jews' leader :

David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

And yet you seems to think you know better than the jews themselves.
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Postby spiderweb » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:46 pm

ali18115 wrote:
Adadeh wrote:
So you are telling me yhat you know better because you happen to live near israel? And visit israel more often than the reverand did?

Nope. First, it's because I know how naive the Westerners can be when dealing with the Muslims and Islam.


Earlier you said the Reverand does not know what he is talking about because he is living far far away from israel. Now your are saying, as a Westerner, the Reverend is naive. What else will you be saying just to nagate the Reverend statement just like you always accused everyone else, I wonder.

Adadeh wrote:Second, I know how it feels to live among Muslims. It's like living near a TNT ready to explode by slightest heat at any moment.


Is "paranoia" the right word to use? Or are you also paranoid to the word "paranoia" ?

Adadeh wrote:Is this coming from someone who had called me with quite abusing and degrading names? What a hipocrete!


The Reverend called you names??? Now thats into the realm of fantasies.

Adadeh wrote:From that article, it is clear that, at the beginning, Eintein was reluctant with the idea of building a state of Israel. But eventually, he decided to help the Jews to build their nation by approaching Nehru to gain support in the U.N. assembly vote. Einstein supported his own people and the decision build the Jewish nation.


Yes he supported the jews but never the zionist. I can give you another imfamous quote by another jews' leader :

David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

And yet you seems to think you know better than the jews themselves.


Bro, is it very difficult to you to present some facts to us? Please separate private opinions from hard facts. Examples:

1 + 1 = 2 is fact
I accuse you stealing the land is NOT fact

It is not important to observe what the real motivation behind the statement, whether the writer does not know the fact or is being naive.

I give you facts from many articles to prove that jews is not descendant from pig like your evil hubal has said in the kuran. the proof? read AGAIN the long list of nobel prize winner.

go back to the track, I am not interested with subjective statements, I can even give you more of such statements.

JUST GIVE US FACTS!
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Postby ali18115 » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:57 pm

spiderweb wrote:
spiderweb wrote:David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

And yet you seems to think you know better than the jews themselves.


Bro, is it very difficult to you to present some facts to us? Please separate private opinions from hard facts. Examples:

1 + 1 = 2 is fact
I accuse you stealing the land is NOT fact


Just in case you are color blind, I have changed the text color of what David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister) said above which was quoted by another jew, Nahum Goldmann in his book The Jewish Paradox.

What facts are you on about???

I did not accused the jews stole the arab land.
You did not know the jews stole the arab land.
BUT
David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister) admitted the jews stole the arab land. And that was confirmed by another jew, Nahum Goldmann.
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Postby Adadeh » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:04 am

ali18115:
The Reverend called you names??? Now thats into the realm of fantasies.

No, I'm talking about YOU! YOU are hypocrite. You critized me for calling the Rev. stoopid while YOU called me with many insulting names in the past.

Earlier you said the Reverand does not know what he is talking about because he is living far far away from israel. Now your are saying, as a Westerner, the Reverend is naive.

Why is it so hard for you to understand my statement. You have been living in the U.K. You know how white people then thought about Islam. Like I said before, in the past, they thought all major religions are the same, they thought the teaching Islam is just as peaceful as the teachings of Christianity, Hindu, or Buddha. But NOW, they start to realize how different it is.

Is "paranoia" the right word to use? Or are you also paranoid to the word "paranoia" ?

Explain to me then why there are always conflicts where ever Muslims live near non-Muslims or even with other Muslims? Where is the root of this conflicts? Does it has something to do with the essence of Islam? Everywhere that Muslims live near or next to non-Muslims there are problems. It does not matter if those non-Muslims are Catholics, or Protestants or Greek or Russian or Serbian Orthodox. It does not matter if they are Sephardic Jews or Ashkenazi Jews. It does not matter which caste of Hindus they belong to, or whether they are members of a scheduled caste at all. It does not matter if they are Theravada Buddhists or another kind, or if they are Confucians, or if they are agnostics or atheists or anything else, as long as they are not Muslims. Living in proximity to Muslims anywhere in the world presents an enormous complex of problems for non-Muslims, for their safety, and for their way of life.

When I said that there is no peace, tolerance, compassion in Islam you don't argue. Then why is it so hard for you to accept the fact that mostly it's not pleasant to live among Muslims because they just act like what their religion told them to do whenever they deal with non-Muslims.

It is normal; we have taken their country.

The Jew did not take the country by literal meaning. Actually the Jews literally "bought" the land they own. They gathered money under "The Jewish National Fund" program and used the money to bought the land from the Arabian and/or Turks landowners. There were several Jewish millionaries contributed for this money fund program, such as the Rothschild family, the Montefiore family. They continued to buy the land until Israel was established.

And yet you seems to think you know better than the jews themselves.

When David Ben Gurion stated that the Jewish God is not the same with the Arabian God, you don't seem to have a problem with that. Do you agree that the Jewish God isn't the same with the Arabs God? If the Arabs don't believe in the same God, then they may feel like Jews took away the land from them. But it's funny how they didn't feel any problem receiving money from the Jews when they decided to sell their land. What a bunch of hyprocrites! Sama kayak kamu sendiri yang sibuk sekali manggil kanan kiri kafir, tapi kalo terima duit/salary dari kafir sih tidak ada masalah. Munafik lo!!
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Postby spiderweb » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:22 am

ali18115 wrote:
spiderweb wrote:
spiderweb wrote:David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

And yet you seems to think you know better than the jews themselves.


Bro, is it very difficult to you to present some facts to us? Please separate private opinions from hard facts. Examples:

1 + 1 = 2 is fact
I accuse you stealing the land is NOT fact


Just in case you are color blind, I have changed the text color of what David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister) said above which was quoted by another jew, Nahum Goldmann in his book The Jewish Paradox.

What facts are you on about???

I did not accused the jews stole the arab land.
You did not know the jews stole the arab land.
BUT
David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister) admitted the jews stole the arab land. And that was confirmed by another jew, Nahum Goldmann.


you cannot differ subjective matter and objective matter eh?

although it is NOT ur private opinion but the statement is hardly a fact!

It IS the opinion of the first israeli PM, it does not mean that IT IS INDEED A FACT! Ok, there are perhaps some books to support his opinion, BUT NOT everybody AGREE TO THAT MATTER.

Give me facts, like figures, experiment results, etc. Don't give me bullshit like:

according to the first israeli PM...

a priest accuses the jews of...

well, I am sorry, are you sure that you were ever ever living in GB? Your logics seem falls behind the average of us or...........you are now beginning to read ur holy book again more intensively, aren't u? :lol:

gotcha!
Last edited by spiderweb on Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby spiderweb » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:47 am

kaya gini ini yang gua sebut hasil penelitan yang bisa dijadikan fact:

...

The modern controversy surrounding intelligence and race focuses on the results of IQ studies conducted during the second half of the 20th century, mainly in the United States and some other industrialized nations. In almost every testing situation where tests were administered and evaluated correctly, a difference of approximately one standard deviation was observed in the US between the mean IQ score of Blacks and Whites. Attempted world-wide compilations of average IQ by race generally place Ashkenazi Jews at the top, followed by East Asians, Whites, Arabs, other Asians, Indians, Blacks and Australian Aborigines.

Nah baca sendiri terusannya, jangan malas, jangan baca kuraaaan muluuu...

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

Ternyata IQ itu ada hubungannya ama budaya and cara berpikir, ada hubungan juga ama tingkat reliogisitas seseorang. Kita bisa bilang kalau hasil penelitiannya mungkin bias and tidak fair, tapi bukti di bawah ini menunjukkan bahwa hasil penelitian itu bisa dipertanggungjawabkan:

...
Achievement in science, a high-complexity occupation in which practitioners tend to have IQs well above average, also appears consistent with some group IQ disparity. Only 0.25% of the world population is Jewish, but Jews make up 20–30% of all Nobel prize winners in physics, chemistry, and medicine.[22]

...

jadi lu lebih percaya mana, kuran lu yang ngomong kalau yahudi itu turunan babi and monyet ato hasil penelitian di atas?
gua dah tahu jawaban lu: kuran! :lol:

ps
lu sendiri kira-kira masuk kelompok yang mana? be objective to urself
based on me:
at the BEST lacking behind those of aborigines!
(sorry, that is my SUBJECTIVE opinion)

cari sendiri artikel yang ngomong kalau ada hubungan antara tingkat religiositas dengan IQ. Semakin religius kaya sheikh and mullah itu justru makin ****! lu kebanyakan sembahyang sampe 5 kali itu jutsru bukannya bikin makin pinter lo...liat aja buktinya di artikel2 yang gua dah kasih sebelumnya.

apalagi bukannya di kuran orang dilarang bertanya?

Albert Einstein:
Umat manusia tidak boleh berhenti bertanya.


jadi nabi lu yang lu junjung tinggi itu bukan menganggap muslim sebagai manusia dong? kenapa sih kok gak boleh bertanya2 dalam kuran? takut boongnya kebongkar ato...karena nabi palsu ini emang gak bisa jawab? 8)
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Postby ali18115 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:43 am

Adadeh wrote:
ali18115 wrote:The Reverend called you names??? Now thats into the realm of fantasies.

No, I'm talking about YOU! YOU are hypocrite. You critized me for calling the Rev. stoopid while YOU called me with many insulting names in the past.


In that case I must have overdone my respect on you whilst thinking that you only restrict your insults to the person being debated (which is bad enough) and NOT the debating opponent. I am not going to dwell on that as it is more insulting to be debating on matters that do not contribute to the topic i.e. "yahudi vs arab".

Adadeh wrote:
ali18115 wrote:Earlier you said the Reverand does not know what he is talking about because he is living far far away from israel. Now your are saying, as a Westerner, the Reverend is naive.


Why is it so hard for you to understand my statement. You have been living in the U.K. You know how white people then thought about Islam.


Thats because like any other human, if you have no respect for the white people, they don't have respect for you and I get lots of respect from the white people. Among them, I don't pretend to be whiter than white, like some asian does but only to the distrust of the white and their own kind. They let me time off for my prayers and I do extra time to substantiate for the lost hours. Now thats mutual respect and understanding. And everyone knows that you will likely be assulted by hooligans rather than Muslims in the UK.

Adadeh wrote:
ali18115 wrote:Is "paranoia" the right word to use? Or are you also paranoid to the word "paranoia" ?

Explain to me then why there are always conflicts where ever Muslims live near non-Muslims or even with other Muslims? Where is the root of this conflicts? Does it has something to do with the essence of Islam?


It has nothing to do with Islam. The Pelestinean - Jews conflict has nothing to do with Islam. It started of when the zionist established their own state and disposing the arab within it. The alternative of living together in a single nation would have been more amicable. But the zionist do not want to live amongs arabs. It has everything to do with racial and territorial supremacy. Has either the jews of israel or the Muslims of Pelestine ever declared that the root of their conflict is religious in nature? Never, because it is NOT.

Adadeh wrote:Living in proximity to Muslims anywhere in the world presents an enormous complex of problems for non-Muslims, for their safety, and for their way of life.


I live in a multi-ethenic, multi-religious, multi- cultural country with Islamic instilled values. None of that "enormous complex of problems for non-Muslims, for their safety, and for their way of life" here. That probably because the country's wealth is evenly distributed among the various multi sectors i.e. no one sector is allowed to be too greedy and every sectors are oblige to contribute to the society. Thats our version of controlled capitalism and Alhamdulillah, it works.

How come the non-muslim living in a country govern by Muslims do not have "enormous complex of problems " but Muslim living in a lot of countries govern by non Muslim seems to have "enormous complex of problems"? But then again, can it be that it has nothing to do with religion but more of a socio-economic root?

I would suggest that we refrain from discussing this seemingly diverted subject (OOT) and stick to the topic i.e. "yahudi vs arab".


Adadeh wrote:The Jew did not take the country by literal meaning. Actually the Jews literally "bought" the land they own. They gathered money under "The Jewish National Fund" program and used the money to bought the land from the Arabian and/or Turks landowners. There were several Jewish millionaries contributed for this money fund program, such as the Rothschild family, the Montefiore family. They continued to buy the land until Israel was established.


Even if the jews literally "bought" the land they own, they have NO RIGHTS to establish a new STATE. If I buy an island off Indonesia from some pribumi (with the pretext that it is my ancestral land), am I allowed to establish a new state with borders saperating my new state from the jurisdiction of Indonesia? Don't be silly. I will be thrown off the island and my sale and purchase agreement be deemed viod and torn to pieces by the Indonesians. Don't you agree?

Adadeh wrote:What a bunch of hyprocrites! Sama kayak kamu sendiri yang sibuk sekali manggil kanan kiri kafir, tapi kalo terima duit/salary dari kafir sih tidak ada masalah. Munafik lo!!


Now and again you seems to cross the border of fantasies just to satisfy your hate against Muslims. Since when did Allah SWT prohibits Muslims from recieving monies from kafirs for an honest work done? Even Rasulullah SAW accepted monies for items he pawned to the jew. Munafik lo NOT!!!
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Postby ali18115 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:00 am

spiderweb wrote:well, I am sorry, are you sure that you were ever ever living in GB? Your logics seem falls behind the average of us or...........


Well, well, well...... if that is your version of what you mean by FACTS, go fly a kite. :wink:
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Postby Adadeh » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:05 pm

In that case I must have overdone my respect on you whilst thinking ...

You act like you forgot about your habit badmouthing me by using the 'k' word, called me biadab, etc. Suddenly now you pretend to be more civilized, huh?

you have no respect for the white people

On the contrary. Because I have mutual respect toward the whites and the westerners in general, therefore I am disturbed with the fact that people take advantage of their generousity. No matter how you want to argue, it isn't a secret that most Westerners don't have any idea about Islam and Muslims. More over before 9/11. While most Muslims are not as twisted as their Profit, there are always some who are attracted toward the aggresive teachings in Islam. The Muslims will be just fine and decent people if it isn’t because of Muhammad and Islam. I have many nice, friendly Muslim friends but many of them can suddenly turn into blood thirsty human beings when it’s dealing with religious issues. They said this or that person ‘s blood is halal if they do this and that. No ****!! This is blood or human life we are talking about. Why the Christians, Hindus, or Budhists don’t act that way? No blood should be halal enough to be spilled for any religious reason!!

When 9/11 happened, the U.S. and the Western world were stunned. President Bush said these Muslim terrorists took advantage on the kindness and generousity of the country. He was darn right! Since then things are different. The last time my Indonesian muslim friend went to the U.S., he had to stay in the immigration inspection office for three hours, being questioned over and over, back and forth, left and right. When it is done, he sworn he would never go back to the U.S. That’s the whole intention from the U.S. government. The message is clear: Muslims are not welcome anymore. Now, I feel really bad with what happened to my friend, but, on the other hand, I can understand why the U.S. acted overly suspicious. This is the same situation the Israelis have to face everyday. Did your dearly beloved Reverend understand this suspicion and precaution? I strongly think he will if his country ever experienced being terrorized by the Muslim the way the U.S. and Israel did.

Has either the jews of israel or the Muslims of Pelestine ever declared that the root of their conflict is religious in nature?

While the religion may not be the main root of the conflict, it still does play a big deal to fan the hatred toward Jews. The Palestians and Arabs justified their attacks against the Israel because that’s what Muhammad told them to do. Other reasons will come later, if it isn’t because of the land, then it’s because they are Jews per se, or because they are not Muslims, or because God hated them for crucifing Jesus, or any other reason one can think of.

Read this testimony:
http://answering-islam.org/Testimonies/walid.html
Quote:
During my youth, like my father, I was always tuned to Islam and what our Muslim teachers taught. Believing in Muhammad's prophecy, I offered my life to 'Jihad' or 'Holy War' as the only means to obtain either victory or martyrdom. In Islam martyrdom is the only way you can ensure salvation and enter into heaven -- especially since Allah and his prophet Mohammed promised it. As the Quran states it:
"Do not think of whom are killed for the cause of Allah (in a Holy War), to be dead but living with their Lord receiving his blessing". -- Sura: The Family of 'Imran ('Al-'Imran, verse 169)

I live in a multi-ethenic, multi-religious, multi- cultural country with Islamic instilled values.

If you live in western country, you enjoy the privilege of being treated humanly. If you live in Malaysia as a Moslem, you also enjoy the privilege of being a Muslim. But, I have many Malayan non-Muslim friends who told me different things. They said they couldn’t get any government scholarship or financial aid because they are not Muslim and not bumiputra. If they are bumiputra and left Islam, then the government doesn’t consider them as bumiputra anymore. Where is the logic in this cruel discriminative policy?

How come the non-muslim living in a country govern by Muslims do not have "enormous complex of problems " but Muslim living in a lot of countries govern by non Muslim seems to have "enormous complex of problems"?

Because non-Muslims in Muslims countris, just like my Malayan friends, work extremelly hard to survive under discriminative policy against them applied by the government. If one really wants to survive and work hard to achieve a better life, there is always some way out. On the other hand, the Muslims in non-Muslim countries who have no jobs and cause riots because of their condition do not have the same endurance and work ethics like the non-Muslims in Muslim countries. Other minorities in non-Muslim countries have to face the same hardship and difficulties to find jobs, but they are not destructive whatsoever. Do you ever hear any group of Chinese or Vietnamese or Burmese or Thais rioting in France or western countries the way the Muslim youngsters did? Why did they burned synagogues and churches? Isn’t that what Muhammad ordered Muslims to do?

Even if the jews literally "bought" the land they own, they have NO RIGHTS to establish a new STATE. If I buy an island off Indonesia from some pribumi

Who owned the land before the Jews bought it? Did it belong to any sovereign country? Did any Arabian country own the land?

Since when did Allah SWT prohibits Muslims from recieving monies from kafirs for an honest work done? Even Rasulullah SAW accepted monies for items he pawned to the jew.

EXACTLY!!! Your Profit killed the Jews and took their money! He is just like that: pure evil bandit in the lowest meaning of it. He called them kafir, najiz, dirty, and should be killed. What about their money? Are their money najiz, dirty too? Nope, their money is good and clean enough for him. You also called the non-Muslim as kafir, meaning najizz, dirty, human waste, but what about their money? Are their money dirty too then? Nope, their money is good and clean enough for you. How strange.

How did Muhammad earn his living in Medina? What job did he do? In what occupation was he employed? What business was he involved in? All these questions remain unanswered. Except for the following Hadith from Sahih Bukhari, all the Sunna, the Sahih Ahadith, the Sirah (biography) never mention of any form of acceptable and/or dignified profession/occupation that Muhammad engaged in to support himself and his retinue of ever increasing number of wives and concubines: Here is that incredible Hadith:
EXACT QUOTE AND FOOTNOTE, VOL-IV (88) CHAPTER.
Narrated Ibn 'Umar that the Prophet (SA) said, "My livelihood is under the shade of my spear,(1) and he who disobeys my orders will be humiliated by paying Jizya"
ootnote:- (1) "Under the shade of my spear" means "from war booty".

Hadith from Sahih Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 53, Number 390:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle once said to me, "If the revenue of Bahrain came, I would give you this much and this much." When Allah's Apostle had died, the revenue of Bahrain came, and Abu Bakr announced, " Let whoever was promised something by Allah's Apostle come to me." So, I went to Abu Bakr and said, "Allah's Apostle said to me, 'If the revenue of Bahrain came, I would give you this much and this. much." On that Abu Bakr said to me, "Scoop (money) with both your hands." I scooped money with both my hands and Abu Bakr asked me to count it. I counted it and it was five-hundred (gold pieces). The total amount he gave me was one thousand and five hundred (gold pieces.)


That revenue from Bahrain. Did the Muslims work hard legally to earn it? Of course not! It’s bloody money. Muhammad used money to entice his followers. Without money, he wouldn’t have so many followers. In Mekah, he preached for about 13 years and only had 80 followers. When he started to rob caravans and got rich, people came to join him. It’s not because of his religion, but because of greed of money.
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Postby spiderweb » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:25 pm

ali18115 wrote:
spiderweb wrote:well, I am sorry, are you sure that you were ever ever living in GB? Your logics seem falls behind the average of us or...........


Well, well, well...... if that is your version of what you mean by FACTS, go fly a kite. :wink:


well, far better for me to fly a kite than to be a muslim 8)

you know, the way a muslim thinks and a normal human being thinks is very different. you are living in your own world, with your own values. you cannot even differ facts from subjective matters. I guess so much it is because of the kuran.

Gua dah liat kok apa hasil-hasil 'positif' dari kuran: terorisme, kemiskinan, kebodohan, opression, brainwashed mentality, ...

kalau kuran emang benar berasal dari Tuhan (bukan auooh) apakah hasil-hasil kaya gini bisa didapatkan?
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Postby ali18115 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:23 am

Adadeh wrote:
In that case I must have overdone my respect on you whilst thinking ...

You act like you forgot about your habit badmouthing me by using the 'k' word, called me biadab, etc. Suddenly now you pretend to be more civilized, huh?


"Karfir" is a bad word???

Adadeh wrote:I have many nice, friendly Muslim friends but many of them can suddenly turn into blood thirsty human beings when it’s dealing with religious issues. They said this or that person ‘s blood is halal if they do this and that.


So you are telling me that you are having problems with your nice Muslim friends attitude when dealing with religious issues. What religious issues are you talking about and why are you involved in their religious issues?

Adadeh wrote:When 9/11 happened, the U.S. and the Western world were stunned. President Bush said these Muslim terrorists took advantage on the kindness and generousity of the country.


I have never heard the US saying 9/11 was a religious issue. You believe what Bush said when 65% of his own American do not believe him now?

Adadeh wrote:While the religion may not be the main root of the conflict, it still does play a big deal to fan the hatred toward Jews. The Palestians and Arabs justified their attacks against the Israel because that’s what Muhammad told them to do. Other reasons will come later, if it isn’t because of the land, then it’s because they are Jews per se, or because they are not Muslims, or because God hated them for crucifing Jesus, or any other reason one can think of.


When is later? The conflict has been over 50+ years and I still have not heard either side declaring it as religious. The Pelestinian do not hate the israelis jews because of their jewish religion but because the jews took their land. The Israelis jews do not hate the Pelestinians because they are Muslim, but because the Pelestinians are rebelling to get back their land. It is only people like you who is trying to protray the conflict as religious because you have made your preconcieve hatered of Islam as your root of argument.

Adadeh wrote:But, I have many Malayan non-Muslim friends who told me different things. They said they couldn’t get any government scholarship or financial aid because they are not Muslim and not bumiputra.


I am sure Malayans are not from my country. And I am not from Malaya.

Anyway, Non-Bumiputra Malaysians knows axactly where they stand. The stand they took and agreed nearly 50 years ago which is embedded into the country's constitution. The same stand that enable "controlled capitalism" to achieve a broad-middle socio-economic prosperity in testimony of Malaysia today. And that is why everybody from all sectors call themselves as Malaysians.

And who says that only Muslims are considered as privileged Bumiputra? The Kadazan, Iban, Senoi, Bajau, Dayak etc. are mostly non Muslims and enjoys greater privilages. Tell your Malayan friends not to spread lies.


Adadeh wrote:Because non-Muslims in Muslims countris, just like my Malayan friends, work extremelly hard to survive under discriminative policy against them applied by the government. If one really wants to survive and work hard to achieve a better life, there is always some way out.


Maybe in Malaya but not in Malaysia.

Adadeh wrote:On the other hand, the Muslims in non-Muslim countries who have no jobs and cause riots because of their condition do not have the same endurance and work ethics like the non-Muslims in Muslim countries.


In other words you are saying that the Muslims are lazy. But look around in the UK and see who actually are the lazy ones and who mostly are on the dole.

Adadeh wrote:Other minorities in non-Muslim countries have to face the same hardship and difficulties to find jobs, but they are not destructive whatsoever.


Why don't you talk to the West Indians (non-Muslims) in Bradford and get their side of the story. Then look around as see if the Muslims are the majority of homeless in the UK?

Adadeh wrote:Who owned the land before the Jews bought it?


Pelestinian arabs. Who do you think the former land-owners were?

Adedeh wrote:
ali18115 wrote:Since when did Allah SWT prohibits Muslims from recieving monies from kafirs for an honest work done? Even Rasulullah SAW accepted monies for items he pawned to the jew.


EXACTLY!!! Your Profit killed the Jews and took their money! He is just like that: pure evil bandit in the lowest meaning of it.


You mean pawning your stuff to a jew makes you a pure evil bandit?

Adadeh wrote:How did Muhammad earn his living in Medina? What job did he do? In what occupation was he employed? What business was he involved in? All these questions remain unanswered.


What do you mean "unanswered"? Surely you must have heard of the "kencing unta" hadis, and was it not that Nabi Muhammad SAW had a herd of camels and hearders to tend them. And you must have heard lots of hadis narrating Rasulullah SAW and his family frequently has little and even sometimes nothing for supper.

Adadeh wrote:Narrated Ibn 'Umar that the Prophet (SA) said, "My livelihood is under the shade of my spear,(1) and he who disobeys my orders will be humiliated by paying Jizya"
ootnote:- (1) "Under the shade of my spear" means "from war booty".


Never heard of it and not listed in the kitabs I hold. Be sure to give a sahih hadis next time and a hadis does not become sahih just because Ali Sina said so.

Adadeh wrote:Muhammad used money to entice his followers. Without money, he wouldn’t have so many followers. In Mekah, he preached for about 13 years and only had 80 followers. When he started to rob caravans and got rich, people came to join him. It’s not because of his religion, but because of greed of money.


Now that is pure bullshit. Are you saying that I along with the 1.3 bil. Muslim (and even more over the 1400+ years) worldwide today are Muslim because we recieved money from Rasulullah SAW. What a twist! You started telling that Muslims are poor because of Islam and now you make a turn to say Muslim have greed for money. You seem to accuse on anything to justify your hate of Islam, don't you?

p.s. I am saying it again. If your next posting contains other than the subject matter "yahudi vs arab", I shall ignore them.
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Postby Adadeh » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:06 pm

ali18115
Now that is pure bullshit. Are you saying that I along with the 1.3 bil. Muslim (and even more over the 1400+ years) worldwide today are Muslim because we recieved money from Rasulullah SAW.

No, I didn't say it still happen now. But back then, during the Muhammad era, he gained many more followers AFTER he became rich by lootings. When he was still weak and not rich in Mekah, he couldn't have many followers.

I don't hate Muslims, I hate Islam. I strongly think Muslims are the main victims of Islam, the other victims are non-Muslims who live around fanatic Muslims.

Never heard of it and not listed in the kitabs I hold. Be sure to give a sahih hadis next time and a hadis does not become sahih just because Ali Sina said so.

Yes, that hadis can only be found here (it's not from A. Sina):
“The Translation of Sahi Bukhari” oleh Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan. [Ref: The Translation of the Meanings of Sahih Al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, Vol.IV (page 104) by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Islamic University—Al-Medina Al-Munauwara].

Pelestinian arabs. Who do you think the former land-owners were?
Well, let's compare your opinion with this information:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... mf2.html#a
Quote:
from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins
...
By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.


Before the establisment of the State of Israel, no sovereign country own the land. After sold their lands, many Arabs left already. The Jews didn't steal the land from the Arabs, they purchased it, they don't force the Arabs to leave the land either. As a matter of fact, according to Sheikh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi, the Muslim Arabs live happily nowadays in Israel, more specifically Jerusalem.
http://indonesian.knowislam.info/forum/ ... .php?t=806
Quote:
While visiting Israel, I was welcomed by a delegation of heads of Arab villages in the Jerusalem area. They were telling me how much they like living in Israel, and how much they fear being transferred to PLO rule. Many of the Arab inhabitants of Gush Katif today share the same feeling. They say, "Israelis give us jobs and an opportunity to live in peace. What kind of future awaits us under PLO?" I am sure that, were they free to speak and able to see the reality beyond propaganda, many more Arab Muslims would support my positions.

In other words you are saying that the Muslims are lazy.

Read again my comment: "the Muslims in non-Muslim countries who have no jobs and cause riots". I never said Muslims are lazy. But the ones who have no job and blame others for their condition by rioting are lazy criminals.

I have never heard the US saying 9/11 was a religious issue.
At the beginning of the war, Bush mentioned about facing a crusade war against the Afghans. Then he realized that was politaclly incorrect because many Muslim countries didn't like that term. Since then the term is Fight for Freedom, Freedom War, Freedom this and that, but the Americans understand that bin Laden's hatred toward the Westerners was legitimized by the content of Qur'an just like what he explained over and over at CNN during the Afghan war.

You believe what Bush said when 65% of his own American do not believe him now?

The Americans don't blame Bush only, but also the whole Congress. The hurricane Catherina dissaster still taking its toll. Once this passes, things will get back to normal as usual.

David ben Gurion: Our God is not theirs.

You haven't answered my question regarding the quote you posted from David b. Gurion. I asked you whether or not you agree with his opinion?

If your next posting contains other than the subject matter "yahudi vs arab", I shall ignore them.

I said whatever I want. Go ahead, ignore this. Who cares?
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Postby spiderweb » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:22 pm

Bro Adadeh, gak usah ditanggapi si ali dari negeri jiran ini, kayanya dia dah mulai OOT. bukannya gua dah suruh dia mosting fakta-fakta yang relevan tentang arab vs yahudi. Repot banget diskusi ama orang yang gak tahu bedanya FAKTA and PENDAPAT PRIBADI.

Gua cuman mau jawaban lu aja:

Kuran lu kan accuse yahudi sebagai turunan babi and monyet.
Kasih gua faktanya!


You know, sometimes I think muslims are gifts from God, can you imagine a world without stupid ones? 8)
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Postby badmotha » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:25 pm

Kedua-duanya untuk kepentingan sendiri. Kedua-duanya kesalahan besar dan saling kait-mengait.

apa kaitannya? apakah dunia arab IRI melihat Israel mendapatkan banyak bantuan? apakah Aulloh IRI dengan israel sehingga menyuruh membenci dan menyerang orang Yahudi?

Masalah donor atau tidak donor tidak masalah. pernah dengar hukum ekonomi? itulah yang dipraktekkan. Pernyataan anda hanya menambah keyakinan bahwa bangsa Israel lebih superior dari Arab, demikian pula Amerika yang membonceng Israel untuk memporaporandakan negara arab. Pelaksanaannya semakin dimudahkan pula dengan Terorisme dan pelanggaran HAM yang sedang populer digalakkan dan diktekuni oleh negara2 arab.

Maka solusi arab: TEROR negara2 lain dan langgarlah HAM sebanyak-banyaknya sehingga dihancurkan sekalian oleh masy. dunia! hooray! :lol:

You started telling that Muslims are poor because of Islam and now you make a turn to say Muslim have greed for money. You seem to accuse on anything to justify your hate of Islam, don't you?

Your Prophet Muhammad is just a poor and distubed man who married rich OLD widow for MONEY. how lazy is that? He then became caravan raider to funds his insane faith and fueled many poor arabs with hatred towards their own Jewish employer. He was a common bandit leader who often destroys, rob, and raped yahudi clans for POWER, MONEY, and WOMAN.
do you still want me to show you these outrageus behaviors in sahih hadist? :lol:

But look around in the UK and see who actually are the lazy ones and who mostly are on the dole.

Yes! Muslim immigrants are so stupid, that they are only good for cleaning toilets and do other shitty jobs for money. Now this ungrateful muslim complain about it and foolishly express how lazy their employer are by not cleaning their own toilet themselves! sounds familiar isnt it?
Soon Muslim will wage a war against those "rich and lazy kafir", just like their beloved prophet does!....hehehe...British citizen and officials beware!!!...kick them while you can!
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