muhammad, the prophet?

Kehidupan, pengikut, kepercayaan, pikiran dan ucapan Muhammad.
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bono
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muhammad, the prophet?

Post by bono »

nah untuk topik yang satu ini, saya mau minta tolong untuk temen2 muslim dan kristen untuk mengeluarkan pengetahuannya, penolakan dan pembelaan, supaya bisa dirangkum gitu, kalo bisa loh, pertanyaannya, apakah muhammad benar2 nabi yang benar? apa buktinya? apa pembelaannya? dan apa penolakannya terhadap muhammad ini?yak.......action! tolong ya diisi topik ini.
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bono
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Post by bono »

hmmm tidak adakah muslim yang bisa membuktikan bahwa muhammad benar2 nabi yang membawa ajaran yang "benar"? ajaran yang katanya dari TUhan? what a bullshit.
anti islam
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Post by anti islam »

buat yang namanya wongmuslim...bisa ngak lo jawab ???? jangan asal cuap yach..
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Mualaf
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Post by Mualaf »

Boleh saya bantu menjawab Bono, tapi saya mohon untuk tidak anti dulu atau berfikir negatif dengan jawaban saya, kita diskusi baik baik dan tidak ada rasa benci membenci bagaimana?? dan saya tidak mau nanggapi dari sdr anti islam dari nicknya sudah tergambar rasa kebencian. diskusi ini khusus antara anda dan saya saja bagaimana?? setuju?
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feodor fathon FF
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Re: muhammad, the prophet?

Post by feodor fathon FF »

bono wrote:nah untuk topik yang satu ini, saya mau minta tolong untuk temen2 muslim dan kristen untuk mengeluarkan pengetahuannya, penolakan dan pembelaan, supaya bisa dirangkum gitu, kalo bisa loh, pertanyaannya, apakah muhammad benar2 nabi yang benar? apa buktinya? apa pembelaannya? dan apa penolakannya terhadap muhammad ini?yak.......action! tolong ya diisi topik ini.
yeee...neng Bono mah .... percuma sekarang saya negbukti poin per poin kalo ente kagak setuju....
naah supaya adil gimana kalo neng biking Parameternya ... apa kriteria2 nya ...trus kita sepakati kriteria itu ...nah trus buktiin sama muslim apa ada kriteria itu pada Muhamamd ?..
OK COY ??
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barabaig
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Re: muhammad, the prophet?

Post by barabaig »

bono wrote:nah untuk topik yang satu ini, saya mau minta tolong untuk temen2 muslim dan kristen untuk mengeluarkan pengetahuannya, penolakan dan pembelaan, supaya bisa dirangkum gitu, kalo bisa loh, pertanyaannya, apakah muhammad benar2 nabi yang benar? apa buktinya? apa pembelaannya? dan apa penolakannya terhadap muhammad ini?yak.......action! tolong ya diisi topik ini.
sebaiknya didefinisikan dulu, nabi itu apa?
kebanyakan muslim tidak mampu mendefinisikan ini, mrk kalo ndak diam akan ber-OOT kalo ditanya kriteria nabi itu apa saja.

mereka selalu mengacu/berpedoman bahwa muhamad itu nabi, jadi diberlakukan surut kepada nabi-nabi sejati sebelum dia

tapi ya cobalah. mungkin memang muslim sudah menemukan kriteria nabinya sejelas kriteria nabi di ajaran lain
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bono
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Post by bono »

ok deh, gw nggak benci muslim, tapi gw benci orang yang suka menghujat isi Injil dan menghujat Tuhan gw, jadi ok lah, silahkan penjelasan dari term muslim. untuk fathon, yah, pokoknya bukti2 dari islam yang membuktikan muhammad adalah nabi tuhan, pokoknya penjelasan muhammad menurut term muslim lah. ok, get started, tapi jangan OOT ya. :wink:
Phoenix
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Post by Phoenix »

bono wrote:ok deh, gw nggak benci muslim, tapi gw benci orang yang suka menghujat isi Injil dan menghujat Tuhan gw, jadi ok lah, silahkan penjelasan dari term muslim. untuk fathon, yah, pokoknya bukti2 dari islam yang membuktikan muhammad adalah nabi tuhan, pokoknya penjelasan muhammad menurut term muslim lah. ok, get started, tapi jangan OOT ya. :wink:
Bono..ingat ajaran Yesus! Kasihilah musuhmu..berdoalah dan berkati mereka yang menghina kamu...

Kalau saya sebel nya bukan sama orangnya, tetapi kebebalan otak mereka dan kelakuan mereka dan ajaran mereka yang menghalalkan pembunuhan dll. Orangnya aku nggak benci koq...

Oke..sekarang nabi itu apa? Harap didefinisikan?
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unagi
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Post by unagi »

Phoenix,
maaf OOT..tapi aku penasaran..pesan dari Coca-cola itu bunyinya apasih?
Maap nih..aku kan ngga bisa baca tulisan Arab...

Makasih loh...
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unagi
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Post by unagi »

bono wrote:ok deh, gw nggak benci muslim, tapi gw benci orang yang suka menghujat isi Injil dan menghujat Tuhan gw, jadi ok lah, silahkan penjelasan dari term muslim. untuk fathon, yah, pokoknya bukti2 dari islam yang membuktikan muhammad adalah nabi tuhan, pokoknya penjelasan muhammad menurut term muslim lah. ok, get started, tapi jangan OOT ya. :wink:

Kalo dari yang gue temuin...ini beberapa kriteria kenabian menurut Islam:

Quranic Criteria for God’s Messengers


God in his immense mercy has spelled out the criteria in the Quran, so that the believers may recognize
His messengers as well as reject false messengers who fail to meet the simple criteria. As believers we
know that a person is either a messenger from God or he/she is not a messenger from God. In the latter
case such claimants qualify as messengers of Satan.


[6:34] Messengers before you have been rejected, and they
steadfastly persevered in the face of rejection. They
were persecuted until our victory came to them. Such is
GOD's system that will never change. The history of My
messengers thus sets the precedents for you.


The history of God’s messengers thus sets precedence for any future messenger/s.


1. ADVOCATE GOD ALONE


God’s messenger will advocate worship of God alone and will abolish all forms of idolatry (7:59-92).


2. NEVER ASKS FOR WAGES


God’s messenger never asks for wages for himself.


3. QURAN ALONE


Logic dictates that a messenger of God will uphold the Quran alone for religious law (6:114) and not
sanction religious regulations, which are not authorized in the Quran.


All the messenger claimants since Dr. Rashad Khalifa announced his messengership in 1988 claim to be
within the confines of the above three criteria, but stand exposed as false messengers when it comes to the
following additional criteria as spelled out in God’s words in the Quran.


4. PROOF OF AUTHENTICITY


God’s messenger is given divine, clear, incontrovertible proof of his messengership. All of God’s
messengers were supported with proof by God’s leave (7:101, for additional information on messenger
and proofs see our Internet page .


Moses staff turned into a serpent by God’s leave.
Jesus healed the leprous and revived the dead by God’s leave.
Saaleh’s proof was the camel.
Abraham walked out of a fire by God’s leave.
God informs us that Muhammad’s miracle was the Quran (29:50-51).
God spells out the proof reserved for His messenger of the covenant as The Proof (38:1).


I - Separation of The Proof and the Quran


In the following verses, God separates the Quran and The Proof.


[36:69] What we taught him (the messenger) was not poetry, nor is
he (a poet). This is but a formidable proof, and a
profound Quran.


[38:1] S. (Saad), and the Quran that contains the proof.


[41:41] Those who have rejected the Quran's proof when it came
to them, have also rejected an Honorable book.


II – We know that The Proof was given to Dr. Rashad Khalifa as his proof of authenticity as
God’s messenger. By God’s leave he presented The Proof based on number nineteen (74:30) to
the world. God calls this proof as “one of the great miracles” in verses 74:35.


III – Proofs compared to The Proof.

The Quran mentions several proofs. However, clear distinction is made between the Quran and
its Proof (38:1); proofs provided to previous messengers (7:101) and God’s proofs/signs all
around us (2:164, 10:6).


IV – The Proof has been delivered.

The proof (38:1, 74:30-35) has been delivered. God chose to deliver it to us through His
messenger of the covenant. God has blessed quite a few individuals and continues to bless
individuals with components of this Proof or components of the mathematical structure of the
Quran based on the number 19.


Those who claim to be messengers and provide “proofs” based on number 19 reflect their blindness and
lack of understanding of the Quran by not knowing that The proof has already been delivered. Those who
claim to have mathematical patterns other than number nineteen (74:30); the obvious question to them is
“Where is the reference to your proof in the Quran?”



5. THE PROOF WILL HAVE REFERENCE IN THE QURAN.


Logic dictates that since the Quran is God’s final scripture and His final words to humanity there should
be reference to any future messenger. His proof of authenticity should also be referenced in the Quran.
Indeed it was the case with God’s messenger of the covenant. Indeed the history God’s messengers set
precedents for us.



6. CLEAR PROOFS


The Proof provided to the messenger of the covenant is clear, easily understood and can be explained to
any person by any sincere person with easy Quranic references. The Quran repeats in various verses clear
proofs given to messengers (7:101).


7. MISSION SPELLED OUT IN THE QURAN


The Quran clearly spelled out the mission of the messenger after the prophets (3:81). The messenger will
confirm existing scriptures. Additional duties and mission are spelled out in verses 5:19, 9:33, Sura 98,
etc. Logic, common sense and the precedent established by God (6:34) dictates that any future messenger
will have his duties clearly spelled out in the Quran.

8. PROPHECY AND PROPHECIES


God’s messenger of the covenant, Rashad Khalifa fulfilled the Quran prophecy in 3:81 – after all the
prophets a messenger will come for a specific mission. Other concurrent prophecies, such as in verses
54:1-5 have also been fulfilled. Reason and logic dictate that any future messenger will be able to point
from the Quran specific fulfillment of a Quranic prophecy.


9. THE MESSENGER’S LANGUAGE


[14:4] We did not send any messenger except (to preach) in the
tongue of his people, in order to clarify things for
them. GOD then sends astray whomever He wills, and guides
whomever He wills. He is the Almighty, the Most Wise.


sumber: http://www.submission.org/criteria.html


hehe..liat ngga salah satu persyaratannya adalah tidak meminta upah..tapi Muhamad justru minta sama Auloh buat diperbolehkan mengawini banyak istri... :lol:
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feodor fathon FF
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Post by feodor fathon FF »

gak usah pake macem2 deh ..buat aja parameternya yang kita sepakati ...sok atuh neng Bono yang bikin sebab neng Bono yang melempar Bola .. nanti kita2 yang mainkan bolanya ...

sok lah sederhana aja parameternya yang memuaskan nalar dan intelektualitas neng Bono ..

to Phoenix :
percuma ente sesumbar kagak benci islam ... kita2 bukan orang buta keliatan banget kok ... trus jangan sok nasehati Bono pake ayat kasihi dan doakan musuhmu ...ciss lo kagak match sama sekali tingkah lo di FFI ini dng ayat yg lo sodorin .. kauh beda ...

ayat itu seharusnya memberikan inspirasi pada kalian untuk berdiskusi secara Cool ..nyantai dan tdk agressif model ente nick
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barabaig
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Post by barabaig »

feodor fathon FF wrote:gak usah pake macem2 deh ..buat aja parameternya yang kita sepakati ...sok atuh neng Bono yang bikin sebab neng Bono yang melempar Bola .. nanti kita2 yang mainkan bolanya ...

sok lah sederhana aja parameternya yang memuaskan nalar dan intelektualitas neng Bono ..

to Phoenix :
percuma ente sesumbar kagak benci islam ... kita2 bukan orang buta keliatan banget kok ... trus jangan sok nasehati Bono pake ayat kasihi dan doakan musuhmu ...ciss lo kagak match sama sekali tingkah lo di FFI ini dng ayat yg lo sodorin .. kauh beda ...

ayat itu seharusnya memberikan inspirasi pada kalian untuk berdiskusi secara Cool ..nyantai dan tdk agressif model ente nick
well, secara kayaknya pada bingung mau tampilin kriteria nabi islami, saya coba lontarken kriteria nabi yudaisme dan otomatis nabi kristen krn kristen mengakui kenabian mrk juga:
1. seorang nabi harus menerima panggilan lsg dari tuhan (Keluaran 18:18) - contoh panggilan yg sangat-sangat jelas: yesaya dan yeremia
2. seorang nabi mesti seorang israel (kel 18:15,18)
3. seorang nabi mesti berbicara atas nama tuhan (YHWH) - kel 18:15,18
4. pengetahuan akan kejadian di masa yg akan datang - kel 18:22; contoh: musa memprediksikan penghancuran mesir, yesus memprediksikan kematian, penguburan, dan kebangkitannya sendiri.
5. nabi-nabi yg besar disertai tanda-tanda mujizat - namun nabi palsupun bisa melakukan mujizat.
6. pesan yg disampaikan seorang nabi konsisten dengan pesan-pesan nabi sebelumnya - kel 13:1-5

so, silaken terapkan ke-enam kriteria pengujian di atas thd orang/tokoh yg mau diuji kenabiannya

editted: smilies disabled
ali5196
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Post by ali5196 »

Kata orang Jawa: the proof is in the action.

Muhamad dalam Quran dikatakan sbg ;
"And surely thou hast sublime morals" (Q.68:4).

“Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example to follow" (Q.33:21).

We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures. (Q.21:107).
Wammaa arsalnaaka illaa rahmatal lil- aalameen!(21:107).”

Verily this is the word of a most honorable Messenger, (Q.81.19)

BUKTINYA ?
TERROR IN MUHAMAD’S OWN WORDS
Hadis Sahih Bukhari 4.52.220;
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said ... I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy) ..."

Sahih Muslim 4:1058
It is related from Jabir that, 'The Apostle of God said, 'I have been given five (qualities) which were not given to any before me. I have been given victory thru fear (inspired by me) at a distance of a month's journey; and the word has been made a pure place of prayer for me ...: and plunder has been made lawful for me, and it was not made lawful for anyone before me; and I have been given intercession; and (formerly) a prophet was sent especially to his own nation, but I have been sent to all men generally."

Bukhari 4.1066:
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I have been helped by terror (in the heart of the enemy) ...

Bukhari 4.53.351:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Booty has been made legal for me."

SO, IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THAT MUHAMAD WAS A :
Warlord & caravan looter, broke peace treaties, killed his enemies mercilessly and sold their wives and children into slavery, raped wives of fallen leaders on the same day their husbands/fathers were killed and called it marriage (Safiya binti Husay & Juwariya binti Mustaliq).

Ordered murders; He personally issued killing orders against critics incl. poetess who was killed in the night whilst tending her baby and a 90 year old critic (Abu Afak) while he was asleep (Ibn Sa’d. vol.ii, p.31)

Mysoginist,
hated women and allowed them to be beaten (Q 4:34), stoned (Sunaan Abu Dawud 38.4426), considered them deficient in intelligence & religion(Shahih Muslim 1.0142), not fit to become leaders, dwellers of hell (Shahih Bukhari 1.6.301, deprived them of their economic and social rights (The History by al-Tabari. Vol.IX: The Last Years of the Prophet, pages 112-114).


Paedophile,
He was 52/53 years old when he married his 6 year old youngest wife, Aisha (9 years old when when marriage was consummated). (Sahih Bukhari 7.88),

Irrational, superstitious,
Hated dogs, especially black dogs, he thought they were Satan. Believed that money from sale of a dog is equal to prostitution, witchcraft. Dogs cut off prayer. He also said : Angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal). Instructed massacre of dogs.
(http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/dogs.htm)

Hated bells because he thinks they are the musical instrument of Satan.

WHY WAS HE A FAKE PROPHET ?
Due to inconsistencies in the Quran, list of his crimes in the Hadis, he won battles due to brutality, never produced miracle or healing, did not know when he was going to die (Moses & Jesus predicted their own death), after death his followers were killing each other (Sunni vs Shiah vs Ahmadis), caused misery to Muslims (and non-Muslims) 1400 years on.

Intolerant towards other religions
On the authority of Ubaydullah b. Abdullah b. Utba b. Masud tells us the following: “The only dispositions that the Apostle made at his death were three: … that two religions should not be allowed to remain in the Peninsula of the Arabs”
(Sirat Rasulallah, p. 523).
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/Mohamm ... r51006.htm


Sorry, Feodor Fathon. Buktinya sangat kuat bahwa Muhamad palsu. Ini memang kenyataan yg sama sekali tidak enak. Sayapun dibuat shock oleh kenyataan ini. Tapi percuma kau menyalahkan kami yg cuma menyampaikan pesan ini. SADARILAH, MURTADLAH, MUHAMAD BUKAN NABI !
Andromeda
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Post by Andromeda »

seorang nabi mesti seorang israel (kel 18:15,18)
===
bagaimana dg adam, nuh, ibrahim dsb.
mereka bukan org israel... karena israel di mulai dari yakub.
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barabaig
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Post by barabaig »

Andromeda wrote:seorang nabi mesti seorang israel (kel 18:15,18)
===
bagaimana dg adam, nuh, ibrahim dsb.
mereka bukan org israel... karena israel di mulai dari yakub.
memang sebutan israel mulai dikenal pada waktu peristiwa yakub ada di pniel.
jika mengikuti alur logika pertanyaan anda, garis keturunan patrilineal sebelum peristiwa ini harus disebut apa?
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moe
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Post by moe »

Andromeda wrote:seorang nabi mesti seorang israel (kel 18:15,18)
===
bagaimana dg adam, nuh, ibrahim dsb.
mereka bukan org israel... karena israel di mulai dari yakub.
lho, mereka memang bukan nabi kog
daud, salomo/suleman juga bukan nabi
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feodor fathon FF
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Post by feodor fathon FF »

andro wrote: ===
bagaimana dg adam, nuh, ibrahim dsb.
mereka bukan org israel... karena israel di mulai dari yakub.
gue setuju ame lo

To : Ali
Maaf parameter yg kita diskusi masih bersifat general belun mengarah pada nama jadi please fokus lah !!

To Barabaig :
Gue bisa pikirkan poin 3, 4, 5 dan 6
MuridMurtad
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Post by MuridMurtad »

Sebaiknya juga menilai Muhammad dari parameternya muslim sendiri :

1.Tidak berbohong.
2.Tidak melakukan pekerjaan yang tercela.
3.Terhindar dari kebodohan dan kemalasan (dalam berdakwah).
4.Tidak menyembunyikan (bertindak kufr) wahyu yang diterimanya.
5.Harus laki-laki.
6.Bukan budak belian, bebas cacat fisik dan tidak berpenyakit.

Diatas adalah parameter Muslim mengenai seorang nabi. Sok atuh Muhammad dinilai, nabi palsu atau kagak dari mulai point 1.

Yang jelas untuk no 6 ……Mo tidak memenuhi syarat (berpenyakitan)……………
Dan yang paling memenuhi syarat hanya no 5.

Tambahan : Seorang nabi matinya wajar (tidak terbunuh)
Yang terakhir juga sebenarnya diragukan, kerena Mo sebenarnya diracun.

--
Last edited by MuridMurtad on Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Phoenix
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Post by Phoenix »

unagi wrote:Phoenix,
maaf OOT..tapi aku penasaran..pesan dari Coca-cola itu bunyinya apasih?
Maap nih..aku kan ngga bisa baca tulisan Arab...

Makasih loh...
Hi unaqi, ini penjelasan lengkapnya:

Image
Phoenix
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Post by Phoenix »

to Phoenix :
percuma ente sesumbar kagak benci islam ... kita2 bukan orang buta keliatan banget kok ... trus jangan sok nasehati Bono pake ayat kasihi dan doakan musuhmu ...ciss lo kagak match sama sekali tingkah lo di FFI ini dng ayat yg lo sodorin .. kauh beda ...

ayat itu seharusnya memberikan inspirasi pada kalian untuk berdiskusi secara Cool ..nyantai dan tdk agressif model ente nick
Hi FFff, yg tidak bisa membedakan antara islam dan muslim, saya tidak bilang tidak benci kpd islam. Justeru saya benci islam, apelagai ajarannya. tetapi saya tidak benci orangnya..Saya tidak benci kamu. Tapi cara berpikir kamu yang dibrainwash sama islam!!!

Saya emang menegur keras kalian, menghardik, tetapi tidak menjahati kalian kan? Kalian bukan anak-anak manja atay bayi yang harus gue turuti..seperti kata gue, mengasihi bukan berarti memanjakan. Kita boleh kasih tahu kesalahan dan kebodohan mereka. ..apelagi kalau ada orang sok pinter.

Yg saya tulis ke bono itu adalah ttg dia benci kpd orang-orang yg menghina isi injil dan Tuhan kita...
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