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DEBAT PEDOFILIA ISLAM: A. KHAN vs. S. MOHAMMAD****

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DEBAT PEDOFILIA ISLAM: A. KHAN vs. S. MOHAMMAD****

Postby Adadeh » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:35 am

Debat Pedofilia dalam Islam: Amaar Khan vs. Saadiq Mohammad

[FFI Editors Note: Amaar Khan's ebook on Pedophilia in Islam is in our library. We received an article from Mr. Saadiq Muhammad assuming a rebuttal to Mr. Amaar Khan's claims. FFI asked Mr. Amaar Khan for his responses to Mr. Muhammad's Claims. Below is what Mr. Muhammad claimed and the response to that from Mr. Amaar Khan. The reader will be the judge as to who proved his points.]

Saadiq Mohammad:

I recently read an article by Amaar Khan titled ‘A complete guide to pedophilia in Islam’. In his argument he quotes Surah 33:49 and Surah 65:4 as proof that pedophilia is prescribed and promoted in the Quran. He then uses hadith, tafsirs and fatwas to back up his points. He tells us to pay close attention to the section in 65:4 that states ‘those who have not menstruated yet’ on page 1 of his article. He says, regarding this verse, and I quote ‘because it is going to be most important in this article.’


Amar Khan:

Evidence from Quran that pedophilia is not prohibited but rather promoted.

In cases of divorces, where the husband had sex with the wife, the Quran specifies the Iddah, a waiting period of three months, in verse 65:4:

Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Waalla-ee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum faAAiddatuhunna thalathatu ashhurin waalla-ee lam yahidna waolatu al-ahmali ajaluhunna an yadaAAna hamlahunna waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu min amrihi yusran.

Clearly, the Quran divides woman in two types:
1. Women who have reached menopause, and
2. Women who do not have menses yet.

The stipulated Iddah period is three months. The word used here is “NISA”, the same word is used in many verses regarding the prepubescent girls. E.g.

And [remember the time] when we saved you from Pharaoh’s people, who afflicted you with cruel suffering, slaughtering your sons and sparing [only] your women - which was an awesome trial from your Sustainer;

(Waith najjaynakum min ali firawna yasoomoonakum sooa alAAathabi yuthabbihoona abnaakum wayastahyoona Nisaakum wafee thalikum balaon min rabbikum AAatheemun) [Quran. 2:49]

Then tafsirs of all commentators on verse 65:4 clearly prove the fact that according to Quran the “ Iddah of prepubescent girls is three months.”

Now the main point here is that according to the Quran, any woman who got divorced before her first menstruation will have three months of “iddah”. So clearly it is allowable to marry a girl who have not yet menstruated. There is no lower limit mentioned in the Quran. So, it is allowed to marry any girl who has not yet have her first menses. She even can be less then one year old.

Saadiq Mohammad:

So let us look at this to see if the Qur’an really allows pedophilia.

J. Geoff Malta, MA, EdM, NCC, an Adolescent Therapist says on his website:
( http://www.puberty101.com/p_pubgirls.shtml ) that there are 5 stages of puberty in women. If you visit this site he says that menstruation occurs during stage 3 which is between the ages of 9 to 15 years of age. He says that only SOME girls get their first period during this time, meaning a small number of girls. So if we look to the next stage as being the one in which most girls menstruate (stage 4) the age is 10 to 16.

Now let us look to at the age of sexual consent, under the law in some NON MUSLIM COUNTRIES. If you visit: ( http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm ) you will see a list of countries and their legal age limit for consent to sex. For the sake of those who have little time, I will list some examples from this website.

Australia the age is 16
Canada the age is 16
Israel the age is 14
UK the age is 16
In some US states, like Indiana and Iowa, the age is as low as 14, but the national average is 16.



Amaar Khan:

First of all I will have to check the data given to me.

According to http://www.puberty101.com/p_pubgirls.shtml
Menarch (the beginning of menstruation) usually happens in “Stage 4″ of puberty, but can happen late in Stage 3 as well. While there are no real “signs” of an impending first period, there are signs that may let you know when it is likely to happen.

Five Stages of Puberty - Girls

1. Age Range: Usually 8-11
In Stage 1 there are no outside signs of development, but a girl’s ovaries are enlarging and hormone production is beginning.

2. Age Range: Usually 8-14. Average: 11-12
The first sign is typically the beginning of breast growth, including “breast buds.” A girl may also grow considerable height and weight. The first signs of pubic hair start out fine and straight, rather than curly.

3. Age Range: Usually 9-15. Average: 12-13
Breast growth continues, and pubic hair coarsens and becomes darker, but there still isn’t a lot of it. Your body is still growing, and your vagina is enlarging and may begin to produce a clear or whitish discharge, which is a normal self-cleansing process. Some girls get their first menstrual periods late in this stage.

4. Age Range: Usually 10-16. Average: 13-14
Pubic hair growth takes on the triangular shape of adulthood, but doesn’t quite cover the entire area. Underarm hair is likely to appear in this stage, as is menarche. Ovulation (release of egg cells) begins in some girls, but typically not in a regular monthly routine until Stage 5.

5. Age Range: Usually 12-19. Average: 15
This is the final stage of development, when a girl is physically an adult. Breast and pubic hair growth are complete, and your full height is usually attained by this point. Menstrual periods are well established, and ovulation occurs monthly.

So Menarch can happen usually at 9-16 years of age, and average age here is 12-14 years.

But the actual problem with the Quran is that it does not impose any lower limit, which I have explained above.

Let us make a thorough examination of minimum age of marriage in country wise. According to http://www.muslim-marriage-guide.com/marriage-age.html, which is an Islamic site and wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age :

Male 22, Female 20 - China (PRC),
Both 21 - Puerto Rico, Philippines, Singapore,
Male 21, Female 18 -Algeria, Bangladesh, India,
Male 21, Female 17 - Mississippi,
Male 21, Female 16 - Hong Kong, SAR of China,
Both 20 - Senegal, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand,
Male 20, Female 17 - Tunisia
Male 20, Female 15 - Thailand
Male 19, Female 17 - Nebraska
Both 18 -Ethiopia, Morocco, Chile, Peru, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming, Venezuela, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Sri Lanka, Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Republic of Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Netherland, Norway, Romania, Russia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine
Male 18, Female 17 - Indiana, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Uzbekistan, Northern Ireland,
Male 18, Female 16 Pakistan, Egypt, South Africa, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Mexico, Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Ohio, Indonesia, Poland,Portugal, England and Wales, Jersey, Australia, New Zealand,
Male 18, Female 15 - Tanzania, Georgia, Hawai, Missouri,
Male 18, Female 14 - Afghanistan,
Male 17, Female 14 - Madgascar,
Both 16 - Kenya, Maldives, Scotland,
Puberty - Sudan, Yemen
Male 16, Female 16 - Jordan
Male 16, Female 14 - Paraguay
Male 15, Female 13 -Iran

From the above chart, the minimum age limit in Afghanistan is 14 years, and in Iran, it is 13 years. Both are Islamic countries, and they follow the Sunnah. But, still the age of Menarch varies from 10-16.


Saadiq Muhammad:

What can we learn from this? That NORMAL (I stress this word for a reason that I will mention later) age that most women menstruate is between the ages of 10 - 16 and that NON MUSLIM COUNTRIES allow consent to sex at about the time of a woman’s first menstruation. So, If a woman living in any of the examples I listed above begins menstruation at or around the age of 16 and a man has sexual contact with her, he can NOT be labeled a pedophile since the law allows sexual contact with women this young. By now, someone who is unbiased can see how Amaar Khan’s argument gradually implodes.



Amaar Khan

Yes, you are right that any one having sex with a girl of age 16 should not be labeled as pedophile, but the problem is that the Quran allows a male to marry a girl before she gets menses. She can even be of one year old. No lower limit is provided.

So the problem is with the Quran, and definitely not with the laws of different countries. These countries have imposed a lower limit for marriage with an average age limit of 18 years. But the author of the Quran does not care to impose any limit. Perhaps, the author wanted to rationalize his own example of marrying a girl before her Menarch.


Saadiq Mohammad

Most people living in Western nations will say ‘But women are menstruating at a much earlier age nowadays’. This fact is true in many 1st world nations, but is this a natural occurrence? The reasons for this early development can be attributed to the high fat content in a woman’s body. Poor eating habits and factors like obesity have been scientifically linked to girls having menstruations at an earlier than normal age. Sandra Steingraber wrote an article about this titled ‘Goodbye Girls’:

http://www.portlandtribune.com/sustaina ... 2475499700 .
In this article she states the following
‘If historical statistics are any guide, the average girl in northern Europe in the 1830s entered puberty — defined by menarche, or the onset of menstruation — at approximately 17 years of age. Today, chances are that her American counterpart will have her first period at about 12 and a half’

History is showing us that the further back you go, the higher the age a woman becomes during her first menstruation. This is due in large part to the dietary habits of people who lived thousands of years ago, compared to those living today. Although we have no historical records indicating the average age of menstruation of women living in Arabia, during the 6th and 7th century, we can easily assume, from the article I listed above, that it was at least at age 17, if not a bit higher.

So, at the time of the revelation of 65:4 the age of menstruation in women was probably about 17 years of age (at least). So at the time of the revelation a pre-pubescent woman could have been between the ages of 14 – 16 years old (at least), which is within the age limit of legal sexual contact with a woman in the countries I listed above.



Amaar Khan

It is true that the age of Menarch is decreasing, but I have explained above that the Quran does not impose any lower limit on the age of marriage. It can be less than one year old.

If we assume that the lower limit is the initial time of Menarch, verse 65:4 is still getting in a fatal trouble; namely, it allows a girl to be married before her Menarch. If the age for Menarch is decreasing, then this means that you can marry an even younger girl.

For example, if the age of first menses was 17 in 622 AD then it was allowed to marry a girl at 17. If the age of first menses is 12, it is allowed to marry a girl at 12 according to Islam. This means that the Quranic “alleged” lower limit is decreasing with the passage of time.

At the end of this article I will explain when did Ayesha really got her Menarch.

Saadiq Muhammad

So let’s look at the implications of this, as it pertains to ISLAM…

Being a Muslim means obeying the laws of the country you live in as long as they do NOT contradict or come into direct violation of Allah’s commandments in the Quran or clear cut Islamic Rulings. So in the case of marrying a younger woman; is this a part of Allah’s commandments or Islamic rulings? Is it an obligation put on ALL Muslim men?

Is it Wajib or Fard (strict obligation or compulsive act)? The answer is NO! If a Muslim man never marries a younger woman he is NO less a Muslim than the man who chooses to do so LEGALY. A Muslim man who denies himself this kind of marriage is no closer or further from entering heaven than a Muslim man who marries a young woman.

Amaar Khan has to demonstrate or prove that this act of marriage to a younger woman is a strict, compulsory obligation for all Muslim men, and I believe he can NOT because such information is non-existent and is NO part of Islam and it’s teachings.


Amaar Khan

I have proven that the Quran allows and promotes pedophilia, Mohammed have made an example of it. His companions have practiced it, and all the mainstream Ulemas are in favor of it, and it is still proudly practiced in the Islamic world.

If we left the issue of Ayesha, there still are other narrations regarding babies which Mohammed wanted to marry. Let us see:

Muhammad wanted to marry a crawling baby-girl. Let us read what Ibn Ishaq, the most authentic biographer of Muhammad, wrote about this.

(Suhayli, ii.79: In the Riwaya of Yunus I. I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummu’l–Fadl) when she was a baby crawling before him and said, ‘If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her.’ But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. ‘Abdu’l-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba… (ibn Ishaq, 2001, p. 311).


Similarly there is another narration:
Muhammad saw Um Habiba the daughter of Abbas while she was fatim (age of nursing) and he said, “If she grows up while I am still alive, I will marry her.” (Musnad Ahmad, Number 25636)

See, how Mohammed wants to get babies even at the deathbed.

Similarly, we know that Mohammed used “transparent skins” for hoories of jannat. And we know that only babies have transparent skins.

It is a proven fact that Mohammed was a pedophile. He wanted to have sex with Ayesha because he saw her in dreams.

(Bukhari 62:015).
Narated By ‘Aisha : Allah’s Apostle said (to me), “You have been shown to me twice in (my) dreams. A man was carrying you in a silken cloth and said to me, ‘This is your wife.’ I uncovered it; and behold, it was you. I said to myself, ‘If this dream is from Allah, He will cause it to come true.’”

We know today that dreams come when we have any desire or wish in any part of our mind. So Mohammed surely did have thoughts about Ayesha in his life before his marriage.

Being a Muslim, it is first and final obligation to do what the prophet have done. To follow his Sunnah is a duty. So it is a duty of every Muslims to follow the Sunnah of the prophet and marry a 9 year old girl.


Saadiq Muhammad

As to the authenticity of these reports, it may be noted that the compilers of the books of Hadith did not apply the same stringent tests when accepting reports relating to historical matters as they did before accepting reports relating to the practical teachings and laws of Islam. The reason is that the former type of report was regarded as merely of academic interest while the latter type of report had a direct bearing on the practical duties of a Muslim and on what was allowed to them and what was prohibited. Thus the occurrence of reports such as the above about the marriage of Aisha in books of Hadith, even in Bukhari, is not necessarily a proof of their credibility.



Amaar Khan

I have explained the authenticity of these narrations. And there is only one reason for repeated narrations regarding pedophilia - it is an accepted thing in Islam. Muslims teach their young girls to respect their husbands by quoting that Ayesha was only nine years when married, but she still respected the prophet very much. I have explained that pedophilia is not only consistent with Ayesha, it is being proved by other sources also. So there is no need for Muslims to hide the age of Ayesha by saying that narrations are wrong. If these narrations are wrong then all the narrations are wrong. If we accept what you say, then the whole Islamic literature is ****. This is a must conclusion.


Saadiq Muhammad

Maulana Muhammad Ali wrote an English booklet titled ‘Prophet of Islam’ and in it he states the following:
“A great misconception prevails as to the age at which Aisha was taken in marriage by the Prophet. Ibn Sa‘d has stated in the Tabaqat that when Abu Bakr [father of Aisha] was approached on behalf of the Holy Prophet, he replied that the girl had already been betrothed to Jubair, and that he would have to settle the matter first with him. This shows that Aisha must have been approaching majority at the time. Again, the Isaba, speaking of the Prophet’s daughter Fatima, says that she was born five years before the Call and was about five years older than Aisha. This shows that Aisha must have been about ten years at the time of her betrothal to the Prophet, and not six years as she is generally supposed to be. This is further borne out by the fact that Aisha herself is reported to have stated that when the chapter [of the Holy Quran] entitled The Moon, the fifty-fourth chapter, was revealed, she was a girl playing about and remembered certain verses then revealed. Now the fifty-fourth chapter was undoubtedly revealed before the sixth year of the Call. All these considerations point to but one conclusion, viz., that Aisha could not have been less than ten years of age at the time of her nikah, which was virtually only a betrothal. And there is one report in the Tabaqat that Aisha was nine years of age at the time of nikah. Again it is a fact admitted on all hands that the nikah of Aisha took place in the tenth year of the Call in the month of Shawwal, while there is also preponderance of evidence as to the consummation of her marriage taking place in the second year of Hijra in the same month, which shows that full five years had elapsed between the nikah and the consummation. Hence there is not the least doubt that Aisha was at least nine or ten years of age at the time of betrothal, and fourteen or fifteen years at the time of marriage.”

This scholar puts the age of consummation of Aisha at 14 or 15 years old which is in accordance to today’s laws in some 1st world nations (USA and Israel) as to the age of a woman who can be LEGALLY engaged in sexual intercourse with a man.

To facilitate understanding dates of these events, please note that it was in the tenth year of the Call, i.e. the tenth year after the Holy Prophet Muhammad received his calling from God to his mission of prophethood, that his wife Khadija passed away, and the approach was made to Abu Bakr for the hand of his daughter Aisha. The hijra or emigration of the Holy Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Holy Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage.



Amaar Khan

Who is Mohammed Ali? This is the first time, I heard of him. Is he a prophet , a companion of the prophet or a hadith writer?

How can he say so? Any reference from the Quran , the hadith etc.?


Saadiq Muhammad

Later research by people like Abu Tahir Irfani in his book titled ‘The age of Lady Aisha at the time of the start of her married life’ states that Aisha was 14 or 15 years old at the time of her marriage and 19 years old at the time of her comsumation. He, like others point out the following facts:

1.The famous classical historian of Islam, Ibn Jarir Tabari, wrote in his ‘History’:
“In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.” [5]

Being born before Islam means being born before the Call.

2. The compiler of the famous Hadith collection Mishkat al-Masabih, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, who died 700 years ago, has also written brief biographical notes on the narrators of Hadith reports. He writes under Asma, the older daughter of Abu Bakr:

“She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years

This would make Asma 28 years of age in 1 A.H., the year of the Hijra, thus making Aisha 18 years old in 1 A.H. So Aisha would be 19 years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage, and 14 or 15 years old at the time of her nikah. It would place her year of birth at four or five years before the Call.

3. The same statement is made by the famous classical commentator of the Holy Quran, Ibn Kathir, in his book Al-bidayya wal-nihaya:
“Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha.”

Apart from these three evidences, which are presented in the Urdu pamphlet referred to above, we also note that the birth of Aisha being a little before the Call is consistent with the opening words of a statement by her which is recorded four times in Bukhari. Those words are as follows:

“Ever since I can remember (or understand things) my parents were following the religion of Islam.”

This is tantamount to saying that she was born sometime before her parents accepted Islam but she can only remember them practicing Islam. No doubt she and her parents knew well whether she was born before or after they accepted Islam, as their acceptance of Islam was such a landmark event in their life which took place just after the Holy Prophet received his mission from God. If she had been born after they accepted Islam it would make no sense for her to say that she always remembered them as following Islam. Only if she was born before they accepted Islam, would it make sense for her to say that she can only remember them being Muslims, as she was too young to remember things before their conversion. This is consistent with her being born before the Call, and being perhaps four or five years old at the time of the Call, which was also almost the time when her parents accepted Islam.



Amaar Khan

When someone becomes that old, people don’t care too much about her exact age. It is very easy to say she was 100 years old when in fact she was only 90. The difference is not noticeable at the old age compared to younger folks, and it is questionable when 100 is a round figure. Assuming the Hadith is authentic, it could be an honest mistake. Since in those days people did not carry birth certificates, it is very much likely that the person who reported her age to be 100 did not know that she was 10 years older than Aisha and did not sit down to make the calculations and deductions. She was not an important person, and it did not occur to anyone that 1300 years later it would become the subject of a controversy. This could be a genuine mistake by the narrator of the Hadith.. Now let us examine the narrations and their authenticity:

In that article the number of ahadith given were:
Book Number of Narrations
Bukhari 6
Muslim 4
Abu Dawud 7
Nisai 1
Ibn Majah 2
Ibn Ishaq 1
Musnad Ahmad 1
Al-Tabari 5
Total 27

There are 27 narrations which are more than many other fundamental rituals of Islam. These narrations say directly that Ayesha was 9 years old. Suppose that all the provided narrations are “weak” then still there are a lot of other hadiths which shows that Ayesha was a young girl when she got married. For example:

‘A’ishah said: I used to play with dolls. Sometimes the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon me when the girls were with me. When he came in, they went out, and when he went out, they came in.” [Sunan Abu Dawud 3:4913, p.1373]

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated ‘Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Narrated Aisha: “The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)”

Tabari IX:131 “My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Suppose Ayesha was 14 or 15 years old then isn’t it quite ridiculous that Ayesha was playing with dolls being swung between two branches. She even was not so mature to clean her face because her nurse took her and wiped her face. She burst into laughter. Wow, what kind of bride was she? It is only possible that Ayesha was 9 years old.

She was actually almost 8 years and 9 months old because the narrations are according to lunar calendar. So if you deny 27 strong narrations then you must be a Quran only Muslim. If you are so, then the problem is solved because Quran only Muslim is not a Muslim in reality.

Furthermore, most of the narrations are from Ayesha herself. So there should be no be any ambiguity about her age because only the person herself knows very well what her actual age is.

Still if any one does not believe that Ayesha was 8 years and 9 months old, then he is no more a Muslim.

When did Ayesha get her first menses?

There is a narration in Bukhari regarding the Menarch of Ayesha.

Sahih Bukhari 1:6:293:
Narrated Al-Qasim:
‘Aisha said, “We set out with the sole intention of performing Hajj and when we reached Sarif, (a place six miles from Mecca) I got my menses. Allah’s Apostle came to me while I was weeping. He said ‘What is the matter with you? Have you got your menses?’ I replied, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is a thing which Allah has ordained for the daughters of Adam. So do what all the pilgrims do with the exception of the Taw-af (Circumambulation) round the Ka’ba.” ‘Aisha added, “Allah’s Apostle sacrificed cows on behalf of his wives.”

Sahih Bukhari 2:26:631
Narrated Al-Qasim bin Muhammad:
‘ Aisha said, “We set out with Allah’s Apostles in the months of Hajj, and (in) the nights of Hajj, and at the time and places of Hajj and in a state of Hajj. We dismounted at Sarif (a village six miles from Mecca). The Prophet then addressed his companions and said, “Anyone who has not got the Hadi and likes to do Umra instead of Hajj may do so (i.e. Hajj-al-Tamattu) and anyone who has got the Hadi should not finish the Ihram after performing ‘ Umra). (i.e. Hajj-al-Qiran). Aisha added, “The companions of the Prophet obeyed the above (order) and some of them (i.e. who did not have Hadi) finished their Ihram after Umra.” Allah’s Apostle and some of his companions were resourceful and had the Hadi with them, they could not perform Umra (alone) (but had to perform both Hajj and Umra with one Ihram). Aisha added, “Allah’s Apostle came to me and saw me weeping and said, “What makes you weep, O Hantah?” I replied, “I have heard your conversation with your companions and I cannot perform the Umra.” He asked, “What is wrong with you?’ I replied, ‘I do not offer the prayers (i.e. I have my menses).’ He said, ‘It will not harm you for you are one of the daughters of Adam, and Allah has written for you (this state) as He has written it for them. Keep on with your intentions for Hajj and Allah may reward you that.” Aisha further added, “Then we proceeded for Hajj till we reached Mina and I became clean from my menses.

(Note: The second hadith has been shortened by deleting the last part which has no relevance here at all.)

Mohammed married ayesha after Hijra (emigration to madina) about at the time of the year 622, and she was at the time of 8 years and 9 months old. She got her first menses while journey for hajj in 629 when she was about 16 years. So she got her menses in 4th stage of puberty. Still fifth stage was left even after the hajj.


Saadiq Muhammad

I have been waiting for Amaar khan to answer me for some time now. I have contacted Ali Sina himself, on his Facebook page and requested a debate with either himself or Amaar Khan. Thus far my invitation has not been answered. So, I am taking this opportunity to call out Amaar Khan and challenge him to a debate over this issue. I do hope that those who know and speak to Amaar Khan will relay this challenge to him and direct him to this article that I have written. I do understand that free time is an issue, so I am willing to accept any format, whether it be a wall to wall posting or an e-mail structured debate.

Amaar Khan, I am waiting! Will you answer this call or hide from it?



Amaar Khan

Dear brother, today at 8 pm (Pakistan standard time) I got an email from FFI editor about your rebuttal. And I have completed counter rebuttal at 10 pm, in spite of the fact that my midterm examinations have been started. I hope all of your arguments have been answered and I have added some extra data in this article which I left in my compiled article “A Complete Guide to Pedophilia in Islam”. What you have done is nothing new for me. Before leaving Islam, I also used these tactics to satisfy myself. But I know that man is very keen in nature. After reading this counter rebuttal surely there will arise some questions in your mind which will lead you to truth.

Regards,

Amaar khan,
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Re: DEBAT PEDOFILIA ISLAM: A. KHAN vs. S. MOHAMMAD****

Postby Adadeh » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:38 am

A complete Guide to pedophilia in Islam*****
http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/02/14/2047/
By: Amaar Khan

Table of Contents
1) Introduction
2) Pedophilia in Quran
3) Pedophilia in hadith
4) Pedophilia in fatawas
5) Myth of age contradiction
6) Proof that ayesha was prebusent
7) Conclusions
8) Common arguments of Muslims

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1: Introduction

There has been a lot of debate over pedophilia in Islam. We, the Ex-Muslims, have collected a lot of data regarding the pedophilic character of Mohammed. This was in the form of articles. Every reader of our site cannot access that data with a single click. So I compiled all of the related material in a single book. Many individuals have worked on finding the Ahadith regarding pedophilia, but the main contributors are:

Hector (FaithFreedom forum member)
Khalil Feriel ( FaithFreedom forum member)
Abdul Kaseem
Yezeevee( FaithFreedom forum member)

This E-book is not free. But its price is only to distribute among your fellows. You can email it to any one. If you want your off spring to live on planet earth happily, then Islam has to be eradicated from the Earth.

We must reach the Muslim youth before the Jihadists reach them. If we can not reach them before the Jihadists then the world will have to suffer. If you want to save the world, stop terrorism and stop oppression, then you will have to tell the People the truth about Islam and its founder.

Send this book to others; perhaps your single email will stop any suicide bomber or anyone from funding terrorism.

Perhaps, your single click will save the gallons of blood that is going to be shed in the Jihad for Islam.

Perhaps, you will save over a billion Muslims who are the primary victims of Islam. Perhaps, you will save America from more 9/11’s. Perhaps, you will save Britain from more 7/7’s. Perhaps you may be able to stop the site meter which is 12690 today. Dear reader, this meter is running very fast. If you don’t share this:

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E=book with your friends and fellows, then may be you have to face the next suicidal attack. We at Islam Watch and FaithFreedom are working to save westerners and Muslims from the dinosaur named Islam.

Please help us by promoting us, giving our web link, talking about us in other forums, sharing comments on our forum, giving us feedback, and most importantly donate for this cause if you can. Most of the work done here is done voluntarily.

Ali Sina and M.A. Khan have left their jobs and nowadays facing a great financial crunch. So please do support in any way you can.

About the author:

I was born an atheist and then Islam was the religion, or cult, imposed on me. Muslim invaders who conquered large parts of my country forced my ancestors to convert to their religion. Once one generation succumbed before Islam, the successive generations were either threatened or brainwashed so that they would never leave this evil cult. My forefathers were even used by the Muslims to defend their faith and spread their evil empire. I was a very fundamentalist Muslim with a beard. I resisted as much as I could, but the truth is that Islam is an imperialistic ideology similar to Nazism, disguised as a religion. It is like a net with the spider waiting for the big meal. It spreads through aggression and deception. It is time that we all try to understand ‘what Islam truly is’ and unite mankind to confront this insidious doctrine of hate. This book is a small step in that direction. We, at Islam-Watch.org, request your full support in this movement against this dangerous ideology.

Regards

Amaar Khan,

Ex Muslim from Islam Republic of Pakistan

Pedophilia in Islamic literature







2: Pedophilia in the Quran:




The Quran allows pedophilia. Though there is no verse that clearly promote pedophilia, there are some verses that allow pedophilia.

The Quran has stipulated a waiting period for women to get remarried once they are divorced, or their husbands died. This waiting period is called Iddah as mentioned in the Quran. But there is an exception that the god of the Quran prescribes for a group of women even though they fall in any of the above category. The Quran says:

O ye who believe! If ye wed believing women and divorce them before ye have touched them, then there is no period that ye should reckon. But content them and release them handsomely.

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha nakahtumu almuminati thumma tallaqtumoohunna min qabli an tamassoohunna fama lakum AAalayhinna min AAiddatin taAAtaddoonaha famattiAAoohunna wasarrihoohunna sarahan jameelan [Quran. 33:49]

From the verses above it is understood that Iddah (stipulated waiting period) is tied to sex. If one woman is not touched by her husband, she does not have to observe any waiting period at all.

So, one of the reasons for the god of the Quran to stipulate Iddah is to avoid any chances of pregnancy. It is not clear what other reasons there may be to have the Iddah period stipulated.

Now, after mentioning women who haven’t yet been used for sex, the Quran goes further to say that women who need to observe the Iddah period (three months) and the time-span too. We see:

Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Waalla-ee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum faAAiddatuhunna thalathatu ashhurin waalla-ee lam yahidna waolatu al-ahmali ajaluhunna an yadaAAna hamlahunna waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu min amrihi yusran. [Quran. 65:4]

Here Iddah is prescribed to categories of women. First it says: “Yaisna mina al-maheedhi” = “those women who are desperate of menses” = is an indication to women who reached the stage of menstruation but do not menstruate and of those who reached menopause. Desperate of menses underlines it concerns women who though reached the age, fail to menstruate too. Their Iddah period is three months. (As said earlier, the logic behind this is unknown), Next there comes “Wallaee Lam yahidhna” = “those who have not menstruated yet” this group of women is pre-pubescent girls who have not menstruated yet. Here, the Iddah prescribed for them is the same as three months.

[I would urge readers to pay particular attention to the phrase "Wallaee Lam Yahidhna" = translated as "Those who have not menstruated yet" because it is going to be most important in this article.]

Let us just combine these verses to the verses quoted earlier. If a woman has not been used for sex, she does not have to observe any Iddah at all, as mentioned in 33:49. What is the reason for the prescribed Iddah for those women who haven’t menstruated yet? This is a clear indication that marrying pre-pubescent girls and having sex with them is sanctioned by the Quran.

Bringing Quranic verses, even though their message is obvious, is not enough for some Muslims to be convinced that Quran sponsors paedophilia. They like to assign a different meaning and interpretation for the phrase in the concerned verses (65:4) “Lam Yahidhna” = “Not menstruated yet”. Some Muslims argue this phrase only refers to women who have reached the age of puberty and failed to have courses. This is the prime argument. But seldom does it hold water because the group of women who have reached the age of puberty and do not menstruate is covered in the phrase that comes prior to “Lam yahidhna” in the Quran. That is:”Yaisna min al-Maheedhi” desperate of menstruation. Two categories of women can be desperate of menses:

1. Women who reached menopause
2. Women who reached the stage of puberty but do not menstruate.

So, women who reached the stage of menstruation but fail to have courses are covered in the phrase of the relevant Quranic verses. The phrase is “Yaisna Min al-Maheedhi”. The phrase under trial here is “Lam Yahidhna” which comes next to it. It is simple logic: a group of women covered in the earlier phrase should not need to be repeated in the next phrase. This is the Quran which is considered to be the words of an almighty Allah, hence not a matter of a joke at all.

Secondly, what comes from the Muslims’ side is an argument about “Nisa” mentioned in the verses 65:4. They argue “Nisa” means women so the verse should not be referring pre-pubertal girls. But this is a very lame excuse which can be refuted using the same Quran. See some verses from Quran where we find the word “Nisa“:


1. And [remember the time] when we saved you from Pharaoh’s people, who afflicted you with cruel suffering, slaughtering your sons and sparing [only] your women - which was an awesome trial from your Sustainer;
Waith najjaynakum min ali firawna yasoomoonakum sooa alAAathabi yuthabbihoona abnaakum wayastahyoona Nisaakum wafee thalikum balaon min rabbikum AAatheemun [Quran. 2:49]

2. Said the chiefs of Pharaoh’s people: “Wilt thou leave Moses and his people, to spread mischief in the land, and to abandon thee and thy gods?” He said: “Their male children will we slay; (only) their females will we save alive; and we have over them (power) irresistible.”

Waqala almalao min qawmi firawna atatharu moosa waqawmahu liyufsidoo fee alardi wayatharaka waalihataka qala sanuqattilu abnaahum wanastahyee Nisaahum wainna fawqahum qahiroona [Quran 7:127]

3. And remember we rescued you from Pharaoh’s people, who afflicted you with the worst of penalties, who slew your male children and saved alive your females: in that was a momentous trial from your Lord.

Waith anjaynakum min ali firawna yasoomoonakum sooa alAAathabi yuqattiloona abnaakum wayastahyoona Nisaakum wafee thalikum balaon min rabbikum AAatheemun [Quran 7: 141]

4. Remember! Moses said to his people: “Call to mind the favour of Allah to you when He delivered you from the people of Pharaoh: they set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons, and let your females live: therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord.

Waith qala moosa liqawmihi othkuroo niAAmata Allahi AAalaykum ith anjakum min ali firawna yasoomoonakum sooa alAAathabi wayuthabbihoona abnaakum wayastahyoona Nisaakum wafee thalikum balaon min rabbikum AAatheemun [Quran 14:6]

5. And when he brought them the Truth from Our presence, they said: Slay the sons of those who believe with him, and spare their females. But the plot of disbelievers is in naught but error.
Falamma jaahum bialhaqqi min AAindina qaloo oqtuloo abnaa allatheena amanoo maAAahu waistahyoo Nisaahum wama kaydu alkafireena illa fee dalalin [Quran 40:25]

All in the above verses, the word “NISA” is used to signify “Female infants”. To get the picture right, it is required to quote Exodus because these verses are replicas of a story depicted in Exodus.

And the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah; and he said: ‘When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, ye shall look upon the birthstool: if it be a son, then ye shall kill him; but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.’ [Exodus, Chapter 1: 15-16]
And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying: ‘Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive. [Exodus, Chapter 1:22]

The story of the Israelites under the Pharaoh and his command to kill all male offspring, but let all females live..! If we check all those Quranic verses, it is NISA used to signify female infants; because the story is about Pharaoh commanding to kill all male offspring and letting all female offspring live. So, “NISA” simply means females. That is what we get from the Quran.

Now, to reinforce this contention the Quran sanctions pre-pubescent marriage and sex which is paedophilia in a pure sense, the rest of this article will look into the most authentic Tafsirs (Interpretation of the Quran) and to get the exact message of the Quran 65:4 which stipulates Iddah for pre-pubescent girls too. First of all, let us have it from modern day scholars:

And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age, or delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women, or because of no discharge at all throughout life which, though rare, may also be the case. In any case, the waiting-period of such a woman is the same as of the woman, who has stopped menstruation that is three months from the time divorce was pronounced.

Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Quran the question of the waiting period arises in respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Quran has held as permissible. [Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi: Tafhim al Quran. Commentary on Quran Chapter 65:4]

Note, what Maududi mentions is giving pre-pubescent girls in marriage and consummating the marriage with them. The interpreter affirms that it is permitted by the Quran, and no Muslim can question or forbid it. This viewpoint is shared by late Mufti of Saudi Arabia Mufti Muhammad ibn Saalih al-Uthaymeen al-Wuhaibi al-Tamimi (1925-2001 CE):

If a woman does not menstruate, either because she is very young or old and past menopause, then her ‘iddah is three months, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise[Quran. Surah al-Talaaq 65:4]

Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen, Majmoo’at As’ilah tahumm al-Usrah al-Muslimah, p. 61-63.
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&QR=12667

The reason for bringing in the opinions of two modern day scholars is only to show that nothing has changed in the Islamic tenets on marrying and having sex with pre-pubescent girls even in this living era. Let us just have a glance at earlier more authentic Tafsirs. Only relevant parts from the Tafsirs will be quoted, because quoting all will consume too much space.
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Re: DEBAT PEDOFILIA ISLAM: A. KHAN vs. S. MOHAMMAD****

Postby mikimos » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:30 am

artikel ini mau saya coba terjemahkan...
sudah bilang sama adadeh Image


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