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Nilai Moral Nabi Yg Meniduri Gadis 9 Th

Muhammad dan istri2nya, pedofilia dan kehidupan seksual nabi

Nilai Moral Nabi Yg Meniduri Gadis 9 Th

Postby NoMind » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:14 pm

Kalangan umat muslim sendiri terpecah dua dalam hal perkawinan Muhammad (54 th) dengan Aisha (6 th).

Satu kalangan dengan gagah mengatakan bahwa memang benar Muhammad mengawini Aisha pada umur 6 th menidurinya pada umur 9 th karena memang tercatat demikian dalam beberapa hadist Sahih (Bukhari dan Muslim) dan berupaya membela habis-habisan alasan Muhammad meniduri Aisha pada usia 9 th dengan mengesampingkan seluruh nilai moral dan hati nurani yang ada, misalnya umur 9 th sudah matang secara fisik atau sudah mens yang artinya sudah siap utk ditiduri tanpa memperhatikan sisi psikologisnya sama sekali.

Kalangan lain, mungkin karena lebih memperhatikan nilai2 moral dan hati nurani, berupaya mati-matian menyanggah bahwa Muhammad menikahi Aisha pada usia 6 th dengan mengajukan hipotesa2 bahwa Aisha waktu itu sudah berumur paling tidak 16 th, dan dengan sendirinya menyanggah kesahihan hadist yang sudah dinyatakan sahih.

Kedua pendapat tersebut di atas sama2 merupakan upaya untuk membersihkan "cacat" yang ada, tetapi upaya kedua kalangan tsb tidak menolong.

Jika memang benar Muhammad mendiuri anak 9 th yang masih bermain dengan bonekanya, maka nilai moral yang disunnahkan oleh Nabi Muhammad sangat "menjijikan" dan tidak bisa diterima oleh siapa saja yang masih bermoral dan berhati nurani. Seorang Nabi selayaknya memberikan standard nila moral yang tinggi dan bukan terbawa arus pada saat itu.

Jika ternyata Muhammad mengawini Aisha bukan pada umur 6 th spt yang tercatat dalam hadist2 sahih, maka bagaimana kesahihan hadist2 tsb dapat dipertanggunjawabkan. Dengan sendirinya Al Quran juga layak dipertanyakan kesahihan, keaslian, dan keabsahannya.

Tetapi untuk topik ini, kita akan mempertanyakan nilai2 moral apa yang hendak diajarkan oleh Nabi Besar kepada umat muslim dengan:
  1. Mencontohkan mengawini anak ingusan berusia 6 th dan menidurinya pada usia 9 th.

    Sahih Bukhari. Vol 7, Book 62. Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah). Hadith 065.

    Narrated By 'Aisha:
    That the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)."


    Sahih Muslim. Book 8. Marriage. Hadith 3310.
    'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

  2. Menyatakan bahwa "legitnya" Aisha yang berumur 9 th secara fisik, seperti tharid (hidangan roti dan daging), tidak ada bandingannya.

    Sahih Bukhari. Volume 4, Book 55, Number 623:

    Narrated Abu Musa:
    Allah's Apostle said, "Many amongst men reached (the level of) perfection but none amongst the women reached this level except Asia, Pharaoh's wife, and Mary, the daughter of 'Imran. And no doubt, the superiority of 'Aisha to other women is like the superiority of Tharid (i.e. a meat and bread dish) to other meals."

  3. Menganjurkan untuk mengawini anak2 gadis perawan yang masih ingusan sehingga bisa meraba2 mereka dan bermain2 dengan mereka.

    Sahih Bukhari. Vol 7, Book 62. Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah). Hadith 017.

    Narrated By Jabir bin 'Abdullah :
    When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'


With Best Regards,
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Postby Briansantoso » Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:53 pm

Seperti pada bagian2 yang lain, begitu ada pertanyaan yang menyudutkan kehidupan Muhammad, selalu saja dijawab dengan berputar2 dan kembali menuduh yang tidak2.

NoMind menulis dan menanyakan demikian:

Tetapi untuk topik ini, kita akan mempertanyakan nilai2 moral apa yang hendak diajarkan oleh Nabi Besar kepada umat muslim dengan:


1. Mencontohkan mengawini anak ingusan berusia 6 th dan menidurinya pada usia 9 th.

Sahih Bukhari. Vol 7, Book 62. Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah). Hadith 065.

Narrated By 'Aisha:
That the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)."

Sahih Muslim. Book 8. Marriage. Hadith 3310.
'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

2. Menyatakan bahwa "legitnya" Aisha yang berumur 9 th secara fisik, seperti tharid (hidangan roti dan daging), tidak ada bandingannya.

Sahih Bukhari. Volume 4, Book 55, Number 623:

Narrated Abu Musa:
Allah's Apostle said, "Many amongst men reached (the level of) perfection but none amongst the women reached this level except Asia, Pharaoh's wife, and Mary, the daughter of 'Imran. And no doubt, the superiority of 'Aisha to other women is like the superiority of Tharid (i.e. a meat and bread dish) to other meals."

3. Menganjurkan untuk mengawini anak2 gadis perawan yang masih ingusan sehingga bisa meraba2 mereka dan bermain2 dengan mereka.

Sahih Bukhari. Vol 7, Book 62. Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah). Hadith 017.

Narrated By Jabir bin 'Abdullah :
When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'


Sekali lagi pertanyaannya disini adalah:
nilai2 moral apa yg hendak diajarkan dari kasus 1,2, dan 3 diatas?


Tolong, jangan menghindar dari pertanyaan. Berilah jawaban yang benar, yang dapat membuat orang melihat islam itu benar. Jangan melihat pertanyaan itu sebagai celaan yang harus dibalas dengan celaan. Jadikan pertanyaan2 seperti ini sebagai bahan Introspeksi diri untuk mengetahui kualitas pemahaman kalian dan kualitas kebenaran ajaran Quran.
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Postby Dimas » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:59 am

Aisyah berkata : [b]"Saya seorang jariyah (gadis muda) ketika Surah Al-Qamar diturunkan"(Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr).[b]

QS 54 diturunkan pada tahun kedelapan sebelum hijriyah (The Bounteous Koran, M.M. Khatib, 1985), ini menunjukkan bahwa surat tsb diturunkan pada tahun 614 M.

Menurut riwayat diatas, secara aktual tampak bahwa Aisyah adalah gadis muda (jariyah).

Menurut Ibn Kathir: "Asma lebih tua 10 tahun dari adiknya (Aisyah)" (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 371,Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933).

Menurut Ibn Kathir: "Asma melihat pembunuhan anaknya pada tahun 73 H, dan 5 hari kemudian Asma meninggal. Menurut riwayat lainya, dia meninggal 10 atau 20 hari kemudian, atau bebrapa hari lebih dari 20 hari, atau 100 hari kemudian. Riwayat yang paling kuat adalah 100 hari kemudian. Pada waktu Asma Meninggal, dia berusia 100 tahun" (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al- jizah, 1933)

Asma wafat pada usia 100 tahun dia tahun 73 H, Asma seharusnya berusia 27 ketika hijrah (622M) dan umur Aisyah 17 tahun.

Tahun 614 M ayat Al Qamar turun, dan umur Aisyah adalah <> 9 tahun
Tahun 620 M Aisyah dipinang oleh Rasulullah saw. dan umur Aisyah kala itu <> 15 tahun.

Kalau dibandingkan ame jaman sekarang apalagi dikota2 Metropolitan, tunangan saat umur 15 tahun emang diketawain dan dicela. Tapi lihat jaman dahulu, minimal jaman kakek-nenek kita kira2 umur berapa tuh beliau pade nikah

Most of the narratives printed in the books of hadith are reported only by Hisham ibn `Urwah, who was reporting on the authority of his father. First of all, more people than just one, two or three should logically have reported. It is strange that no one from Medina, where Hisham ibn `Urwah lived the first 71 years of his life narrated the event, despite the fact that his Medinan pupils included the well-respected
Malik ibn Anas. The origins of the report of the narratives of this event are people from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have shifted after living in Medina for most of his life.

Tehzibu'l-Tehzib, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet, reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: 'He [Hisham] is highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after moving over to Iraq' (Tehzi'bu'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-'asqala'ni, Dar Ihya al-turath al- Islami, 15th century. Vol 11, p. 50).

It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people in Iraq: 'I have been told that Malik objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq? (Tehzi'b u'l-tehzi'b'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`asqala'ni, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol.11, p. 50).

Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, another book on the life sketches of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet reports: 'When he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly' (Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, Al-Zahbi, Al-Maktabatu'l- athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol. 4, p. 301).

CONCLUSION: Based on these references, Hisham's memory was failing and his narratives while in Iraq were unreliable. So, his narrative of Ayesha's marriage and age are unreliable.

CHRONOLOGY: It is vital also to keep in mind some of the pertinent dates in the history of Islam:

pre-610 CE: Jahiliya (pre-Islamic age) before revelation
610 CE: First revelation
610 CE: AbuBakr accepts Islam
613 CE: Prophet Muhammad begins preaching publicly.
615 CE: Emigration to Abyssinia
616 CE: Umar bin al Khattab accepts Islam
620 CE: Generally accepted betrothal of Ayesha to the Prophet
622 CE: Hijrah (emigation to Yathrib, later renamed Medina)
623/624 CE: Generally accepted year of Ayesha living with the Prophet
EVIDENCE #2: The Betrothal

According to Tabari (also according to Hisham ibn 'Urwah, Ibn Hunbal and Ibn Sad), Ayesha was betrothed at seven years of age and began to cohabit with the Prophet at the age of nine years.

However, in another work, Al-Tabari says: 'All four of his [Abu Bakr's] children were born of his two wives during the pre-Islamic period? (Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari (died 922), Vol. 4, p. 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979).

If Ayesha was betrothed in 620 CE (at the age of seven) and started to live with the Prophet in 624 CE (at the age of nine), that would indicate that she was born in 613 CE and was nine when she began living with the Prophet. Therefore, based on one account of Al-Tabari, the numbers show that Ayesha must have born in 613 CE, three years after the beginning of revelation (610 CE). Tabari also states that Ayesha
was born in the pre-Islamic era (in Jahiliya). If she was born before 610 CE, she would have been at least 14 years old when she began living with the Prophet. Essentially, Tabari contradicts himself.

CONCLUSION: Al-Tabari is unreliable in the matter of determining Ayesha's age.

EVIDENCE # 3: The Age of Ayesha in Relation to the Age of Fatima

According to Ibn Hajar, 'Fatima was born at the time the Ka`bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet was 35 years old... she was five years older that Ayesha' (Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol. 4, p. 377, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978).

If Ibn Hajar's statement is factual, Ayesha was born when the Prophet was 40 years old. If Ayesha was married to the Prophet when he was 52 years old, Ayesha's age at marriage would be 12 years.

CONCLUSION: Ibn Hajar, Tabari an Ibn Hisham and Ibn Humbal contradict each other. So, the marriage of Ayesha at seven years of age is a myth.

EVIDENCE #4: Ayesha's Age in relation to Asma's Age

According to Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd: 'Asma was 10 years older than Ayesha (Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol. 2, p. 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992).

According to Ibn Kathir: 'She [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by 10 years' (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 371, Dar al- fikr al-'arabi, Al-jizah, 1933).

According to Ibn Kathir: 'She [Asma] saw the killing of her son during that year [73 AH], as we have already mentioned, and five days later she herself died. According to other narratives, she died not after five days but 10 or 20, or a few days over 20, or 100 days later. The most well known narrative is that of 100 days later. At the time of her death, she was 100 years old.' (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)

According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani: 'She [Asma] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH.' (Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, p. 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow).

According to almost all the historians, Asma, the elder sister of Ayesha was 10 years older than Ayesha. If Asma was 100 years old in 73 AH, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of the hijrah.
If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha should have been 17 or 18 years old. Thus, Ayesha, being 17 or 18 years of at the time of Hijra, she started to cohabit with the Prophet between at either 19 to 20 years of age.

Based on Hajar, Ibn Katir, and Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd, Ayesha's age at the time she began living with the Prophet would be 19 or 20. In Evidence # 3, Ibn Hajar suggests that Ayesha was 12 years old and in Evidence #4 he contradicts himself with a 17 or 18-year-old Ayesha. What is the correct age, twelve or eighteen?

CONCLUSION: Ibn Hajar is an unreliable source for Ayesha's age.

EVIDENCE #5: The Battles of Badr and Uhud

A narrative regarding Ayesha's participation in Badr is given in the hadith of Muslim, (Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Bab karahiyati'l-isti`anah fi'l- ghazwi bikafir). Ayesha, while narrating the journey to Badr and one of the important events that took place in that journey, says: 'when we reached Shajarah'. Obviously, Ayesha was with the group travelling towards Badr. A narrative regarding Ayesha's participation in the Battle of Uhud is given in Bukhari (Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Bab Ghazwi'l-nisa? wa qitalihinna ma`a'lrijal): 'Anas reports that on the day of Uhud, people could not stand their ground around the Prophet. [On that day,] I saw Ayesha and Umm-i-Sulaim, they had pulled their dress up from their feet [to avoid any hindrance in their movement].' Again, this indicates that Ayesha was present in the Battles of Uhud and Badr.

It is narrated in Bukhari (Kitabu'l-maghazi, Bab Ghazwati'l-khandaq wa hiya'l-ahza'b): 'Ibn `Umar states that the Prophet did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was 14 years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was 15 years old, the Prophet permitted my participation.'

Based on the above narratives, (a) the children below 15 years were sent back and were not allowed to participate in the Battle of Uhud, and (b) Ayesha participated in the Battles of Badr and Uhud

CONCLUSION: Ayesha's participation in the Battles of Badr and Uhud clearly indicates that she was not nine years old but at least 15 years old. After all, women used to accompany men to the battlefields to help them, not to be a burden on them. This account is another contradiction regarding Ayesha's age.

EVIDENCE #6: Surat al-Qamar (The Moon)

According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha was born about eight years before hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari, Ayesha is reported to have said: 'I was a young girl (jariyah in Arabic)' when Surah Al-Qamar was revealed (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr).

Chapter 54 of the Quran was revealed eight years before hijrah (The Bounteous Koran, M.M. Khatib, 1985), indicating that it was revealed in 614 CE. If Ayesha started living with the Prophet at the age of nine in 623 CE or 624 CE, she was a newborn infant (sibyah in Arabic) at the time that Surah Al-Qamar (The Moon) was revealed. According to the above tradition, Ayesha was actually a young girl, not an infant in the year of revelation of Al-Qamar. Jariyah means young playful girl (Lane?s Arabic English Lexicon). So, Ayesha, being a jariyah not a sibyah (infant), must be somewhere between 6-13 years old at the time of revelation of Al-Qamar, and therefore must have been 14-21 years at the time she married the Prophet.

CONCLUSION: This tradition also contradicts the marriage of Ayesha at the age of nine.

EVIDENCE #7: Arabic Terminology

According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of the Prophet's first wife Khadijah, when Khaulah came to the Prophet advising him to marry again, the Prophet asked her regarding the choices she had in mind. Khaulah said: 'You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)'. When the Prophet asked the identity of the bikr (virgin), Khaulah mentioned Ayesha's
name.

All those who know the Arabic language are aware that the word bikr in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year-old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier, is jariyah. Bikr on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady without conjugal experience prior to marriage, as we understand the word 'virgin' in English. Therefore, obviously a nine-year-old girl is not a 'lady' (bikr)
(Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol. 6, p. .210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut).

CONCLUSION: The literal meaning of the word, bikr (virgin), in the above hadith is 'adult woman with no sexual experience prior to marriage.' Therefore, Ayesha was an adult woman at the time of her marriage.

EVIDENCE #8. The Qur'anic Text

All Muslims agree that the Quran is the book of guidance. So, we need to seek the guidance from the Quran to clear the smoke and confusion created by the eminent men of the classical period of Islam in the matter of Ayesha's age at her marriage. Does the Quran allow or disallow marriage of an immature child of seven years of age?

There are no verses that explicitly allow such marriage. There is a verse, however, that guides Muslims in their duty to raise an orphaned child. The Quran's guidance on the topic of raising orphans is also valid in the case of our own children. The verse states: 'And make not over your property (property of the orphan), which Allah had made a (means of) support for you, to the weak of understanding, and maintain them out of it, clothe them and give them good education. And test them until they reach the age of marriage. Then if you find them maturity of intellect, make over them their property...' (Quran, 4:5-6).

In the matter of children who have lost a parent, a Muslim is ordered to (a) feed them, (b) clothe them, (c) educate them, and (d) test them for maturity 'until the age of marriage' before entrusting them with management of finances.

Here the Quranic verse demands meticulous proof of their intellectual and physical maturity by objective test results before the age of marriage in order to entrust their property to them.

In light of the above verses, no responsible Muslim would hand over financial management to a seven- or nine-year-old immature girl. If we cannot trust a seven-year-old to manage financial matters, she cannot be intellectually or physically fit for marriage. Ibn Hambal (Musnad Ahmad ibn Hambal, vol.6, p. 33 and 99) claims that nine-year-old Ayesha was rather more interested in playing with toy-horses than
taking up the responsible task of a wife. It is difficult to believe, therefore, that AbuBakr, a great believer among Muslims, would betroth his immature seven-year-old daughter to the 50-year-old Prophet. Equally difficult to imagine is that the Prophet would marry an immature seven-year-old girl.

Another important duty demanded from the guardian of a child is to educate them. Let us ask the question, 'How many of us believe that we can educate our children satisfactorily before they reach the age of seven or nine years?' The answer is none. Logically, it is an impossible task to educate a child satisfactorily before the child attains the age of seven. Then, how can we believe that Ayesha was educated
satisfactorily at the claimed age of seven at the time of her marriage?

AbuBakr was a more judicious man than all of us. So, he definitely would have judged that Ayesha was a child at heart and was not satisfactorily educated as demanded by the Quran. He would not have married her to anyone. If a proposal of marrying the immature and yet to be educated seven-year-old Ayesha came to the Prophet, he would have rejected it outright because neither the Prophet nor AbuBakr would violate any clause in the Quran.

CONCLUSION: The marriage of Ayesha at the age of seven years would violate the maturity clause or requirement of the Quran. Therefore, the story of the marriage of the seven-year-old immature Ayesha is a myth.

EVIDENCE #9: Consent in Marriage

A women must be consulted and must agree in order to make a marriage valid (Mishakat al Masabiah, translation by James Robson, Vol. I, p. 665). Islamically, credible permission from women is a prerequisite for a marriage to be valid.

By any stretch of the imagination, the permission given by an immature seven-year-old girl cannot be valid authorization for marriage.

It is inconceivable that AbuBakr, an intelligent man, would take seriously the permission of a seven-year-old girl to marry a 50-year-old man.

Similarly, the Prophet would not have accepted the permission given by a girl who, according to the hadith of Muslim, took her toys with her when she went live with Prophet.

CONCLUSION: The Prophet did not marry a seven-year-old Ayesha because it would have violated the requirement of the valid permission clause of the Islamic Marriage Decree. Therefore, the Prophet married an intellectually and physically mature lady Ayesha.

SUMMARY:

It was neither an Arab tradition to give away girls in marriage at an age as young as seven or nine years, nor did the Prophet marry Ayesha at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to this marriage because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated.

Obviously, the narrative of the marriage of nine-year-old Ayesha by Hisham ibn `Urwah cannot be held true when it is contradicted by many other reported narratives. Moreover, there is absolutely no reason to accept the narrative of Hisham ibn `Urwah as true when other scholars, including Malik ibn Anas, view his narrative while in Iraq, as unreliable. The quotations from Tabari, Bukhari and Muslim show they contradict each other regarding Ayesha's age. Furthermore, many of these scholars contradict themselves in their own records. Thus, the narrative of Ayesha's age at the time of the marriage is not reliable due to the clear contradictions seen in the works of classical scholars of Islam.

Therefore, there is absolutely no reason to believe that the information on Ayesha's age is accepted as true when there are adequate grounds to reject it as myth. Moreover, the Quran rejects the marriage of immature girls and boys as well as entrusting them with responsibilities.

T.O. Shanavas is a physician based in Michigan. This article first appeared in The Minaret in March 1999.

' 2001 Minaret

Extracted 09/06/02 from The Minaret
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Postby Briansantoso » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:26 am

Semakin kontradiksi kan?

Banyak hadist mengatakan dengan jelas umurnya 9 taun waktu dinikahi, tapi berdasarkan artikel yg dilampirkan, menyatakan bahwa tulisan hadist itu tidak sah, beberapa malah mengatakan itu mitos.

Lho trus yang benar yang mana? Apakah mungkin sebagian hadist itu salah (palsu)? Kalau ada beberapa hadist yang layak dipertanyakan kebenarannya, bagaimana kita tahu yang mana yang asli? Apa yang asli (benar) itu yang "menguntungkan" Muhammad saja dengan menceritakan kehebatan dan kesucian hidupnya saja?
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Postby dago » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:40 am

briansantoso:
Semakin kontradiksi kan?

Banyak hadist mengatakan dengan jelas umurnya 9 taun waktu dinikahi, tapi berdasarkan artikel yg dilampirkan, menyatakan bahwa tulisan hadist itu tidak sah, beberapa malah mengatakan itu mitos.

Lho trus yang benar yang mana? Apakah mungkin sebagian hadist itu salah (palsu)? Kalau ada beberapa hadist yang layak dipertanyakan kebenarannya, bagaimana kita tahu yang mana yang asli? Apa yang asli (benar) itu yang "menguntungkan" Muhammad saja dengan menceritakan kehebatan dan kesucian hidupnya saja?



Ini membukti semuanya dari Jibril palsu> Muhammad c.s. adalah gang of lier(pembohong) yang membuat2 cerita & ayat2 (diturunkan????) dan menuduh Bible sudah dikorup.
Maling teriak maling.

Muslims scholar mencari dalih mengenai umur Aisha, karena jaman sekarang menyetubuhi bocah umur 9 adalah crime apalagi ini dilakukan oleh kakek yang nota bene adalah (suppose) seorang nabi yang seharusnya tahu morality.

Kita harus ingat bahwa kelakuan semacam ini tidak sesuai dengan kepribadian Indonesia. Tetapi kalua anda lihat kebudayaan oppressive Arab dan timur tengah, soal ngawini anak kecil itu mungkin tidak menjadi soal.
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Postby somad » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:01 am

Briansantoso wrote:Semakin kontradiksi kan?

Banyak hadist mengatakan dengan jelas umurnya 9 taun waktu dinikahi, tapi berdasarkan artikel yg dilampirkan, menyatakan bahwa tulisan hadist itu tidak sah, beberapa malah mengatakan itu mitos.

Lho trus yang benar yang mana? Apakah mungkin sebagian hadist itu salah (palsu)? Kalau ada beberapa hadist yang layak dipertanyakan kebenarannya, bagaimana kita tahu yang mana yang asli? Apa yang asli (benar) itu yang "menguntungkan" Muhammad saja dengan menceritakan kehebatan dan kesucian hidupnya saja?


Siap siap saja bung Brian, sebentar lagi anda akan diserbu dgn posting OOT. Padahal semua pertanyaan tentang Aisah bersumber dari haditz mereka sendiri. Dan perlu ditambahkan Aisah dinikah pada usia 6 tahun dan digauli pada usia 9th. Jika kita telusuri diskusi tentang ini biasanya Muslim tanggung akan berdalih bahwa pada Usia 9 th Aisah sudah besar dan sudah menstruasi (alias sudah matang untuk digauli secara seksual tanpa melihat pribadi yg masih kekanak kanakan yg dibuktikan pula dalam Haditz bahwa Aishah masih senang bermain boneka. Jadi jelas Aimnya hanyalah pada Sexual Intercourse yg dirasionalkan Halal. Dan bagi mereka yg tidak mengerti Bahasa Inggris dan hanya bisa Bahasa Indonesia dn ARAB bisa membuka resources tentang ISLAM di http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/ind
.

Di Thread ini saja sudah masuk posting Sdr Brurr yg OOT, kita berduiskusi tentang Islam malah dia bawa bawa Injil seakan akan dia tidak pernah baca Quran dan Haditz.

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Postby NoMind » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:33 am

Dimas wrote:Aisyah berkata : "Saya seorang jariyah (gadis muda) ketika Surah Al-Qamar diturunkan"(Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr).

QS 54 diturunkan pada tahun kedelapan sebelum hijriyah (The Bounteous Koran, M.M. Khatib, 1985), ini menunjukkan bahwa surat tsb diturunkan pada tahun 614 M.

Menurut riwayat diatas, secara aktual tampak bahwa Aisyah adalah gadis muda (jariyah).

Menurut Ibn Kathir: "Asma lebih tua 10 tahun dari adiknya (Aisyah)" (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 371,Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933).

Menurut Ibn Kathir: "Asma melihat pembunuhan anaknya pada tahun 73 H, dan 5 hari kemudian Asma meninggal. Menurut riwayat lainya, dia meninggal 10 atau 20 hari kemudian, atau bebrapa hari lebih dari 20 hari, atau 100 hari kemudian. Riwayat yang paling kuat adalah 100 hari kemudian. Pada waktu Asma Meninggal, dia berusia 100 tahun" (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al- jizah, 1933)

Asma wafat pada usia 100 tahun dia tahun 73 H, Asma seharusnya berusia 27 ketika hijrah (622M) dan umur Aisyah 17 tahun.

Tahun 614 M ayat Al Qamar turun, dan umur Aisyah adalah <> 9 tahun
Tahun 620 M Aisyah dipinang oleh Rasulullah saw. dan umur Aisyah kala itu <> 15 tahun.

Kalau dibandingkan ame jaman sekarang apalagi dikota2 Metropolitan, tunangan saat umur 15 tahun emang diketawain dan dicela. Tapi lihat jaman dahulu, minimal jaman kakek-nenek kita kira2 umur berapa tuh beliau pade nikah

Menurut hadist2 SAHIH berikut ini, Aisah dinikahi Muhammad pada usia 6 tahun dan ditiduri/digauli pada usia 9 th.

Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:
"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."



Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.064
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).



Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.065
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'



Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.088
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).



Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.236
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed (sic – consummated) that marriage when she was nine years old.



Apakah "consummated the marriage" berarti melakukan hubungan intim? Jawabnya YA.

http://www.exmuslim.com/com/evidence.htm

There has been some confusion about the definition of the word "consummate". In Sahih Bukhari, vol. 7, #64, the root word used is "dakhala". From the Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary p273, it means "to enter, to pierce, to penetrate, to consummate the marriage, cohabit, sleep with a woman".



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Postby NoMind » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:46 am

somad wrote:Siap siap saja bung Brian, sebentar lagi anda akan diserbu dgn posting OOT. Padahal semua pertanyaan tentang Aisah bersumber dari haditz mereka sendiri. Dan perlu ditambahkan Aisah dinikah pada usia 6 tahun dan digauli pada usia 9th. Jika kita telusuri diskusi tentang ini biasanya Muslim tanggung akan berdalih bahwa pada Usia 9 th Aisah sudah besar dan sudah menstruasi (alias sudah matang untuk digauli secara seksual tanpa melihat pribadi yg masih kekanak kanakan yg dibuktikan pula dalam Haditz bahwa Aishah masih senang bermain boneka. Jadi jelas Aimnya hanyalah pada Sexual Intercourse yg dirasionalkan Halal. Dan bagi mereka yg tidak mengerti Bahasa Inggris dan hanya bisa Bahasa Indonesia dn ARAB bisa membuka resources tentang ISLAM di http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/ind
.

Di Thread ini saja sudah masuk posting Sdr Brurr yg OOT, kita berduiskusi tentang Islam malah dia bawa bawa Injil seakan akan dia tidak pernah baca Quran dan Haditz.

Wassallam

Argumentasi dari Muslim bahwa pada usia 9 th Aisha sudah haid juga tidak tepat karena menurut hadist2 yang sahih pada usia tsb Aisha masih belum haid.

Dari sumber hadist yang sahih, kita bisa melihat bahwa pada usia 9 th saat digauli, Aisha masih belum akil baliq. Bahkan dari hadis2 tsb pada usia sekitar 14-15 saat perang Khaybar, Aisha masih belum haid karena masih bermain dengan boneka. Dalam aturan hukum Islam yang ketat pada jaman Nabi, bermain boneka hanya diperbolehkan bagi anak2 kecil yang belum akil baliq. Kesimpulannya, Aisha belum akil baliq pada usia 9 th saat digauli, bahkan pada usia 14-15 pun saat perang Khaybar dia belum haid.

Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:
"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."



Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/073.sbt.html#008.073.151
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)



Sunan Abu Dawud. Book 36. General Behavior. Hadith 4914.
Narrated By 'Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin : When the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) arrived after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar (the narrator is doubtful), the draught raised an end of a curtain which was hung in front of her store-room, revealing some dolls which belonged to her.

He asked: What is this? She replied: My dolls. Among them he saw a horse with wings made of rags, and asked: What is this I see among them? She replied: A horse. He asked: What is this that it has on it? She replied: Two wings. He asked: A horse with two wings? She replied: Have you not heard that Solomon had horses with wings? She said: Thereupon the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) laughed so heartily that I could see his molar teeth.



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Postby NoMind » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:53 am

Alasan bahwa Muhammad mengawini Aisha adalah untuk memperkuat tali persaudaraan dengan "suadara angkatnya" Abu Bakr juga tidak valid karena Abu Bakar jelas keberatan karena mereka adalah saudara angkat. Tetapi Muhammad tetap memaksa dan mengatakan tidak menjadi masalah padahal dia pernah menolak tawaran dari Hamza, saudara angkatnya juga, untuk menikasih puterinya:

Menurut hadist berikut Abu Bakr keberatan saat Muhammad melamar Aisah.

Sahih Bukhari. Volume 7. Book 62. No. 18
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.018
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."



Abu Bakr sebenarnya tidak salah karena dalam tradisi bangsa Arab persaudaran walaupun saudara angkat sama artinya dengan saudara kandung. Demikian juga dengan anak angkat. Adalah tabu mengawini anak saudara angkat atau isteri anak angkat menurut moral bangsa2 Arab pada waktu itu.

Muhammad sendiri pun menolak saat di tawarin untuk menikah dengan anak Hamza (yang juga adalah saudara angkat spt halnya Abu Bakr) dengan alasan bahwa anak Hamza adalah keponakan angkatnya (seperti halnya Aisha juga adalah keponakannya):

Sahih Bukhari. Volume 7, Book 62, Number 37:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.037

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
It was said to the Prophet, "Won't you marry the daughter of Hamza?" He said, "She is my foster niece (brother's daughter). "



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Postby MuridMurtad » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:40 am

Memang ada kontroversi mengenai berapa usia Aisha waktu dinikahi Muhammad.
Tapi secara tradisi, umumnya menerima bahwa usia Aisha waktu dinikahi Muhammad
adalah 9 th.

Khomeini membuat peraturan usia minimal pernikahan adalah 9 th, kerena ingin meng
"imitasi" Muhammad. Dan bagi dia, sah-sah saja.

Tapi sebenarnya, berapapun usia Aisha, serang kakek yang jadi panutan, apapun motif
nya, tidaklah etis menikahi gadis se usia cucunya(bahkan cicit?). Kalo tujuannya
mau menolong, bukankah lebih baik diangkat anak.

Muhammad mirip oom-oom yang doyan ABG.
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Postby Romo.FX » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:53 pm

Tujuan Nabi bukan untuk menikah hanya demi hawa nafsu melainkan untuk melindungi wanita tersebut dari sesuatu yang bisa mendatangkan kepada fitnah..
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Postby NoMind » Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:43 pm

Dimas wrote:T.O. Shanavas is a physician based in Michigan. This article first appeared in The Minaret in March 1999.

' 2001 Minaret

Extracted 09/06/02 from The Minaret


udah jelas...!!!!

eh ngomong2.. tread ttg zizyah kok ilang..??? udah mentok yah..???

makanya biasain tuh copy paste.. :lol:

Tulisan T.O. Shanavas sudah di counter di sini:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=130710#130710

Di posting oleh Hector dalam bahasa Inggris. Jika mau di terjemahkan dalam bahasa Indonesia, di menggunakan KATAKU (http://www.toggletext.com/?lang=id)

For Bin Qasim,
Shanavas has been debunked here already. I suggest you read Shaykh Dr Gibril Haddad's complete demolition of this 'Aisha wasn't 9 years old' nonsense. Apparently the Islamist making the 'reliability of sources' accusation was either lying by misrepresentation of the actual sources, or doesn't understand the Islamic sources.

Check out evidence # 1:

According to Shaykh Haddad the Aisha's age sahih hadiths were not narrated by only one source, were narrated also by Medinans, and the slander against the primary narrator was unfounded. A closer examination of Shanavas's own reference material does not even support his assertion.

Enjoy!!! And I look forward to discussing this with you.


INTRODUCTION

Some modernist Islamic apologists try to cast doubt on the age of Aisha when she married and had sex with Muhammad despite the many sahih hadiths in which Aisha explicitly and directly states that she was nine years old at the time. They are clearly embarrassed that their pedophile Prophet married and had sex with a nine-year-old CHILD, and they sometimes seek to explain that Aisha was in fact not nine-years-old as the SAHIH HADITHS of Aisha’s own testimony claim, but some other ages derived from indirect sources, fuzzy dating techniques, and downright slander.

The most common of these arguments is propounded by the “Learner”, or Moiz Amjad, based on the work of Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi (urdu) as presented in his booklet, "Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat"). Other transmitters of these arguments include TO Shavanas and Zahid Aziz.

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=discussion&did=89
http://www.understanding-islam.com/ri/mi-004.htm
http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.php

The article by T.O. Shanavas appears in the following website:
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_151_200/ayesha_age_the_myth_of__a_prover.htm

I will now proceed to show the polemics of T.O. Shanavas to be illogical rubbish. The question that escapes the minds of the simpletons accepting the polemics of Shanavas and Amjad is ‘why they would bother using sources that clearly derive different ages for Aisha when she first had sex with Muhammad.’

When one examines the work of Shanavas, one sees that his arguments contradict and debunk each other. His evidence # 2 says Aisha was 14 years old. However his evidence # 3 says she was 12, his evidence # 4 says she was 17 or 18, his evidence #5 says she was 15+, and his evidence # 6 says she was 14-21.

In other words, each and every one of his evidence contradicts and debunks all the others. Which of these so-called evidence is correct? They can’t all be correct. Sadly, Shanavas does not have a clue.

The simplest answer is that Shanavas has used doubtful data and assumptions for his calculations. In reality, all his arguments are false. Instead of using SAHIH hadiths, Shanavas uses non-sahih source material. Instead of using specific and clear age testimony, Shanavas uses events that cannot possibly be dated with any degree of accuracy. Instead of using traditions of acknowledged authenticity, Shanavas prefers to believe unsubstantiated slander and misquotations. Hardly solid foundation for establishing Aisha’s age when she first had sex with Muhammad. No wonder Shanavas cannot provide a consistent answer to the question of Aisha’s age.

His argument appears to be that because he himself, using spurious information, derives multiple conflicting ages for the one specific event in Aisha’s life, then we must throw out what we know about her age at this event. In effect, Shanavas is saying that just because he is using rubbish data, we have to throw out the sahih hadiths. I’m afraid to inform Shanavas’ followers that this is not the logical outcome. Rather than discarding the good with the bad, we will merely throw out the bad; in this case, Shanavas’ feeble attempt to obfuscate our understanding that Aisha was aged nine when she married and had sex with Muhammad.

I am greatly indebted to the following for this analysis, particularly Shaykh Haddad, whose knowledge of Islamic literature has been invaluable.
* Dr Shaykh Gibril Fouad Haddad, teacher of Fiqh at Sunnipath.com and Livingislam.org at http://www.ummah.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=48327&page=7&pp=20
* Dr Ali Sina at http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha_age.htm
* The muslimhope website at http://www.muslimhope.com/aishanine.htm


ANALYSIS

Shanavas wrote:EVIDENCE # 1 Reliability of Source

A. Most of these narratives printed in the Hadith books are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the authority of his father. First of all, more people than just one, two or three should logically have reported.

B. It is strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas.

C. The origins of the report of the narratives of this event are people from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have shifted after living in Medinah for seventy-one years.

D. Tehzibu'l-tehzib, one of the most well known books on the life and the reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) report that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "He [Hisham] is highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after moving over to Iraq." (REF: Tehzi'bu'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`asqala'ni, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, 15th century. Vol 11, p. 50).

It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq: “I have been told that Malik [ibn Anas] objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq." (REF: Tehzi'b u'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`asqala'ni, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol.11, p. 50)

E. Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, another book on the life sketches of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports: "When he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly" (REF: Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, Al-Zahbi, Al-Maktabatu'l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol. 4, p. 301)

CONCLUSION: Based on these references, Hisham’s memory was failing and his narratives while in Iraq were unreliable. So, his narrative of Ayesha’s marriage and age are unreliable.

REBUTTAL:
This slander against Shaykh al-Islam Hisham ibn Urwah, Aisha’s own grand-nephew, has been debunked by Shaykh Gibril Haddad.


Gibril Haddad wrote:A. Try more than eleven authorities among the Tabi`in that reported it directly from `A'isha, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha.

B. Not so. Al-Zuhri also reports it from `Urwa, from `A'isha; so does `Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan, both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa`d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad, one of the Seven Imams of Madina, from `A'isha. All the narratives of this event have been reported.

C. Not so. In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi`in narrators, Sufyan ibn `Uyayna from Khurasan and `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya from Tabarayya in Palestine both report it.

Nor was this hadith reported only by `Urwa but also by `Abd al-Malik ibn `Umayr, al-Aswad, Ibn Abi Mulayka, Abu Salama ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn `Awf, Yahya ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn Hatib, Abu `Ubayda (`Amir ibn `Abd Allah ibn Mas`ud) and others of the Tabi`i Imams directly from `A'isha.

This makes the report mass-transmitted (mutawatir) from `A'isha by over eleven authorities among the Tabi`in, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, such as Ibn Mas`ud nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha, such as Qatada!

D. Rather, Ya`qub said: "Trustworthy, thoroughly reliable (thiqa thabt), above reproach except after he went to Iraq, at which time he narrated overly from his father and was criticized for it." Notice that Ya`qub does not exactly endorse that criticism.

As for Malik, he reports over 100 hadiths from Hisham as is evident in the two Sahihs and Sunan! to the point that al-Dhahabi questions the authenticity of his alleged criticism of Hisham.

Indeed, none among the hadith Masters endorsed these reservations since they were based solely on the fact that Hisham in his last period (he was 71 at the time of his last trip to Iraq), for the sake of brevity, would say, "My father, from `A'isha? (abi `an `A'isha)" and no longer pronounced, "narrated to me (haddathani)".

Al-Mizzi in Tahdhib al-Kamal (30:238) explained that it became a foregone conclusion for the Iraqis that Hisham did not narrate anything from his father except what he had heard directly from him.

Ibn Hajar also dismisses the objections against Hisham ibn `Urwa as negligible in Tahdhib al-Tahdhib (11:45), saying: "It was clear enough to the Iraqis that he did not narrate from his father other than what he had heard directly from him".

In fact, to say that "narratives reported by Hisham ibn `Urwa are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq" is major nonsense as that would eliminate all narrations of Ayyub al-Sakhtyani from him since Ayyub was a Basran Iraqi, and those of Abu `Umar al-Nakha`i who was from Kufa, and those of Hammad ibn Abi Sulayman from Kufa (the Shaykh of Abu Hanifa), and those of Hammad ibn Salama and Hammad ibn Zayd both from Basra, and those of Sufyan al-Thawri from Basra, and those of Shu`ba in Basra, all of whom narrated from Hisham!

E. An outright lie, on the contrary, al-Dhahabi in Mizan al-I`tidal (4:301 #9233) states: "Hisham ibn `Urwa, one of the eminent personalities. A Proof in himself, and an Imam. However, in his old age his memory diminished, but he certainly never became confused. Nor should any attention be paid to what Abu al-Hasan ibn al-Qattan said about him and Suhayl ibn Abi Salih becoming confused or changing! Yes, the man changed a little bit and his memory was not the same as it had been in his younger days, so that he forgot some of what he had memorized or lapsed, so what? Is he immune to forgetfulness? [p. 302] And when he came to Iraq in the last part of his life he narrated a great amount of knowledge, in the course of which are a few narrations in which he did not excel, and such as occurs also to Malik, and Shu`ba, and Waki`, and the major trustworthy masters. So spare yourself confusion and floundering, do not make mix the firmly-established Imams with the weak and muddled narrators. Hisham is a Shaykh al-Islam. But may Allah console us well of you, O Ibn al-Qattan, and the same with regard to `Abd al-Rahman ibn Khirash's statement from Malik!"

Thank you, Shaykh Gibril Haddad. It seems that Shanavas had either misquoted or misrepresented his own references. Thus, it appears the slander against Hisham ib Urwa is unfounded and unsupported by authoritative Islamic texts. I must also add that Shanavas’ requirements that the Aisha age hadiths be transmitted by multiple narrators and by non-Medinans are straw man arguments. Nowhere in Sunni Islam is there the requirement for multiple narrators nor by Medinans only. These are non-existent standards that Shanavas created to support his specious arguments.


Shanavas wrote:EVIDENCE # 2 Betrothal
According to Tabari (also according to Hisham ibn ‘urwah, Ibn Hunbal and Ibn Sad), Ayesha was betrothed at seven years of age and began to cohabit with Prophet at the age of nine years. However, in another work, Al- Tabari says:

"All four of his [Abu Bakr's] children were born of his two wives -- the names of whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period."(REF: Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari (died 922), Vol. 4, p. 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979)

If Ayesha was betrothed in 620 CE (at the age of 7 years) and started to live with Prophet in 624 CE or 2 AH (at the age of nine years), she was born in 613 CE {(Year of living with Prophet MINUS Ayesha’a age at that time of living with Prophet EQUALS the date of birth of Ayesha (624CE – 9 yrs = 613 CE)}. So, based on one account of Al-Tabari the numbers show that Ayesha must have born (613 CE) three years after the beginning of revelation (610 CE). And yet another place Tabari says that Ayesha was born in Pre-Islamic time (in Jahilliyyah). If she were born in pre-Islamic time (before 610 CE), she would have be at least 14 years old. So, Tabari contradicts himself.

CONCLUSION: Al-Tabari is unreliable in the matter of determining Ayesha’s age.

REBUTTAL:
Shaykh Gibril Haddad says that the evidence Shanavas provided above is false.


Gibril Haddad wrote:Al-Tabari nowhere reports that "Abu Bakr's four children were all born in Jahiliyya" but only that Abu Bakr married both their mothers in Jahiliyya, Qutayla bint Sa`d and Umm Ruman, who bore him four children in all, two each, `A'isha being the daughter of Umm Ruman.

Thus, Tabari wasn’t so unreliable after all. The ‘so-called’ contradiction charge against Tabari was due to a misquotation.



Shanavas wrote:EVIDENCE # 3 The Age of Ayesha in Relation to the Age of Fatima

According to Ibn Hajar, “ Fatimah (ra) was born at the time the Ka`bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old... she (Fatimah) was five years older that Ayesha (ra).” (REF: Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol. 4, P. 377, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978)

So, based on Ibn Hajar, Fatima was born when Prophet was 35 years old and Ayesha was 5 years younger than Fatima. If Ibn Hajar’s statement is factual, Ayesha was born when Prophet was forty years old (Prophet’s age at the birth of Fatima PLUS 5 years = 40 years). If Ayesha was married to Prophet when he was 52 years old, Ayesha’ age at marriage would be 12 years {(Prophet’s age at the time of marriage MINUS Prophet’s age at Ayesha’s birth (52 yrs – 40 years = 12 yrs)}.

CONCLUSION: Ibn Hajar, Tabari and Ibn Hisham and Ibn Humbal contradict each other. So, the marriage of Ayesha at seven years of age is a myth.

REBUTTAL:
Using Fatima’s age difference with Aisha to refute the Aisha’s Age sahih hadiths is a logical fallacy because the biography of Fatima is conflicting. Nobody knows for sure when Fatima was born (when her father was a nobody), and though her death was well-recorded her age at death is not known for certain.

The traditional account is that she was born on Friday, 20th jumada ` th-thaaniyah in the fifth year after the declaration of the prophethood (615 AD), which means she was about the same age as Aisha. http://www.hadith.net/english/prophet/fatimah.htm
http://www.ummah.net/khoei/fatima.htm

The most predominant view in the traditions transmitted by our traditionists is that Fatimah az-Zahra' was born in Mecca, on the twentieth of Jumada 'l-Akhirah, in the fifth year of the Prophet's apostolic career. It is also asserted that when the Prophet died, Fatimah was eighteen years and seven months old.

It is reported on the authority of Jabir ibn Yazid that (the fifth Imam) al-Baqir was asked: "How long did Fatimah live after the Messenger of Allah?" He answered: "Four months; she died at the age of twenty-three." This view is close to that reported by the traditionists of the (Sunni) majority. They have asserted that she was born in the forty-first year of the. Messenger of Allah's life. This means that she was born one year after the Prophet was sent by Allah as a messenger. The scholar Abu Sa'id al-Hafiz relates in his book Sharafu' n-Nabiyy that all the children of the Messenger of Allah were born before Islam except Fatimah and Ibrahim, who were born in Islam.

Reference: Abu Ali al-Fadl ibn al-Hasan ibn al-Fadl at-Tabrisi (c. 468/1076 - 548/1154)

http://home.swipnet.se/islam/A_Personality/Fatima(a.s).htm

Some say she was born ten years earlier than Aisha. Those who believe this also believe Fatima was aged 29 years when she died, not the 18 years traditionally believed.
muslimhope wrote:Sunan Nasa’i vol.1 #29 p.115-116 actually says that Fatima was 29 years old when she died (six months after Mohammed), which makes her ten years older than A’isha. So somebody forgot a date somewhere. The authoritative hadiths of Sunan Nasa’i would generally be trusted more than Ibn Hajar, Regardless, though A’isha was younger.


Sina has refuted the accuracy of Shanavas’ information:
Sina wrote:Of course this information cannot be taken as correct. If Ayesha was five years older than Fatimah, and Fatimah was born when the Prophet was 35 years old, then Ayesha was only 30 years younger than the Prophet. So at the time of her marriage when the Prophet was 54, Ayesha must have been 24 years old. This is not certainly correct, for the reasons explained above and also it contradicts the Hadith that the apologist quoted about the age of Asma, Ayesha’s sister, who according to that Hadith was 10 years older that Ayesha and died in 73 Hijra. So at the time of Hijra Asma must have been 100 –73 = 27 years old, but according to this Hadith she was 34 years old.

Shaykh Gibril Haddad showed that Ibn Hajar was merely reporting what some narrators reported, not his own conclusion, and Shanavas chose the wrong narration and also wrongly attributed that narration to Ibn Hajar, who was merely the reporter.


Gibril Haddad wrote:Ibn Hajar mentions two versions: (1) al-Waqidi's narration that Fatima was born when the Prophet was 35; and (2) Ibn `Abd al-Barr's narration that she was born when he was 41, approximately one year more or less before Prophethood, and about five years before `A'isha was born. The latter version matches the established dates.

In fact, we know Ibn Hajar believed that Aisha was nine years old when Muhammad married and had sex with her, therefore he couldn’t have believed the conflicting narration by al-Waqidi.


muslimhope wrote:Ibn Hajar’s Isabah IV, p.359-360 supports her being married by 9 years old

In conclusion, Fatima’s birth date is uncertain. Despite this, Shanavas used a non-traditional estimate to cast doubt on Aisha’s age, when the traditional account exactly matches the established facts. Note that Shanavas omitted the traditional account in his Ibn Hajar reference, choosing instead one that is clearly in error. Some might view this deliberate omission to be disingenuous.


Shanavas wrote:EVIDENCE # 4 The Age of Ayesha in Relation to the Age of Asma
According to Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd: “Asma (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha. (REF: Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol. 2, p. 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992)

According to Ibn Kathir: "She [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years". (REF: Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 371, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)

According to Ibn Kathir: "She [Asma] saw the killing of her son during that year [i.e. 73 AH], as we have already mentioned, and five days later she herself died. According to other narratives she died not after five days but ten or twenty or a few days over twenty or a hundred days later. The most well known narrative is that of hundred days later. At the time of her death, she was 100 years old." (REF: Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir (died 1333), Vol. 8, Pg. 372, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)

According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani: "She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (REF: Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow)

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). If Asma was 100 years old in 73 AH, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijra { Asma’s age MINUS 73 hijrah EQUALS the age of Asma at the time of Hijrah( 100 – 73 or 74 = 27 or 28 )}.

If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of Hijrah, Ayesha (ra), being younger by 10 years, should have been 17 or 18 years old {Asma’s age at the time of Hijarah MINUS the age difference between Asma and Ayesha EQUALS the age of Ayesha at the time of Hijarh (27 or 28 –10 = 17 or 18 yrs)}. Thus, Ayesha (ra), being 17 or 18 years of at the time of Hijra, she started to cohabit with Prophet between 19 to 20 years old (The Age of Ayesha at the time of Hijra + the year of Ayesha cohabiting with Prophet (19-20 + 1-2 Hijra) = The Age of Ayesha when she cohabit with Prophet (19 or 20 years).

Based on Hajar, Ibn Katir, and Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd, age of Ayesha at the time living with Prophet would be 19 or 20 years. In evidence # 3, Ibn Hajar suggests that Ayesha is 12 years old and in evidence # 4 he contradicts himself with a seventeen or eighteen-year-old Ayesha (ra). What is the correct age, twelve or eighteen?

CONCLUSION: Ibn Hajar is an unreliable source for Ayesha’s age.

REBUTTAL:
This is another straw man argument. Aisha’s age when she married and had sex with Muhammad is usually determined from the hadiths of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim and Sunan Abu Dawud.

Sina has refuted the accuracy of the information:
Sina wrote:Of course this information cannot be taken as correct. If Ayesha was five years older than Fatimah, and Fatimah was born when the Prophet was 35 years old, then Ayesha was only 30 years younger than the Prophet. So at the time of her marriage when the Prophet was 54, Ayesha must have been 24 yeas old. This is not certainly correct, for the reasons explained above and also it contradicts the Hadith that the apologist quoted about the age of Asma, Ayesha’s sister, who according to that Hadith was 10 years older that Ayesha and died in 73 Hijra. So at the time of Hijra Asma must have been 100 –73 = 27 years old, but according to this Hadith she was 34 years old.

Shaykh Haddad also challenges the accuracy of the information:
Gibril Haddad wrote:Well, Ibn Kathir based himself on Ibn Abi al-Zinad's assertion that she was ten years older than `A'isha, however, al-Dhahabi in Siyar A`lam al-Nubala' said there was a greater difference than 10 years between the two, up to 19, and he is more reliable here.

Ibn Hajar reports in al-Isaba from Hisham ibn `Urwa, from his father, that Asma' did live 100 years, and from Abu Nu`aym al-Asbahani that "Asma' bint Abi Bakr was born 27 years before the Hijra, and she lived until the beginning of the year 74." None of this amounts to any proof for `A'isha's age whatsoever.

Using inaccurate data, Shanavas maligns Ibn Hajar’s reliability. He assumes Asma was older than Aisha by 10 years when a more reliable source says the age difference is up to 19 years. Taking this more reliable information calculates Aisha’s age at around nine years old, completely in accordance with the sahih hadiths where Aisha herself said she was nine years old.


Shanavas wrote:EVIDENCE # 5 Battles of Badr and Uhud
A narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) participation in Badr is given in Muslim, Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Bab karahiyati'l-isti`anah fi'l-ghazwi bikafir. Ayesha (ra) while narrating the journey to Badr and one of the important events that took place in that journey says: "when we reached Shajarah". It is quite obvious from these words that Ayesha (ra) was with the group travelling towards Badr.

A narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of `uhud is given in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Bab Ghazwi'l-nisa' wa qitalihinna ma`a'lrijal: "Anas reports that On the day of Uhud, people could not stand their ground around the Prophet (pbuh). [On that day,] I saw Ayesha (ra) and Umm-i-Sulaim (ra), they had pulled their dress up from their feet [to avoid any hindrance in their movement]."

CONCLUSION: Ayesha (ra) was present in the battles of Uhud and Badr.

It is narrated in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-maghazi, Bab ghazwati'l-khandaq wa hiya'l-ahza'b: "Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation."

Summary: Based on the above narratives, (a) the children below 15 years were sent back and were not allowed to participate in the battle of `uhud, (b) Ayesha participated in the battles of Badr and Uhud

CONCLUSION: Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicates that she was not nine old but at least 15 years old or older. After all, women used to accompany men to the battlefields to help them, not to be a burden on them. This account is another contradiction about Ayesha’s age.

REBUTTAL:
Ali Sina refuted this argument:
Sina wrote:This is a weak excuse. When the Battle of Badr and Uhud occurred Ayesha was 10 to 11 years old. She did not go to be a warrior, like the boys. She went to keep Muhammad warm during the nights. Boys who were less than 15 were sent back, but this did not apply to her.


Women and young children went to the battlefields to perform other functions.
muslimhope wrote:The women and young children went on the battlefield after the battle and gave water to the wounded Muslims and finished off the enemy wounded. al-Tabari vol.12 p.127,146. During the days of the battle, the women and children were there to dig graves for the dead. al-Tabari vol.12 p.107.


Therefore, it is clear that the fifteen-year age threshold applied only to boys, and Shanavas’ line of argument is clearly false.

Shaykh Haddad also showed that Shanavas had used false or incomplete information.

Gibril Haddad wrote:First, the prohibition applied to combatants. It applied neither to non-combatant boys nor to non-combatant girls and women. Second, `A'isha did not participate in Badr at all but bade farewell to the combatants as they were leaving Madina, as narrated by Muslim in his Sahih. On the day of Uhud (year 3), Anas, at the time only twelve or thirteen years old, reports seeing an eleven-year old `A'isha and his mother Umm Sulaym having tied up their dresses and carrying water skins back and forth to the combatants, as narrated by al-Bukhari and Muslim.


So, Aisha did not participate in Badr at all, despite Shanavas’ assertion. It is also illuminating to know that Shanavas may have partially quoted the Uhud hadiths to falsely convey the impression that Aisha participated at Uhud when the hadiths are clear in that she was merely carrying water skins to the combatants. The last part of the hadith was omitted, either deliberately or inadvertently, an act some people may consider disingenuous.

Sahih Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 52, Number 131:
Narrated Anas: On the day (of the battle) of Uhad when (some) people retreated and left the Prophet, I saw 'Aisha bint Abu Bakr and Um Sulaim, with their robes tucked up so that the bangles around their ankles were visible hurrying with their water skins (in another narration it is said, "carrying the water skins on their backs"). Then they would pour the water in the mouths of the people, and return to fill the water skins again and came back again to pour water in the mouths of the people.



Shanavas wrote:EVIDENCE # 6 Surat al Qamar
According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said: "I was a young girl (jariyah)" when Surah Al-Qamar was revealed. (REF: Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)

The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed eight years before Hijrah (REF: The Bounteous Koran, M.M. Khatib, 1985). So, it was revealed in 614 CE {Year of Hijrah MINUS year of revelation of Al Qamar (622 CE – 8 = 614 CE)}. If Ayesha started living with Prophet (pbuh) at the age of nine in 623 CE or 624 CE, she was a newborn infant (a sibyah) {Year of Ayesha living with Prophet MINUS age of Ayesha when she started to live with Prophet (623 CE or 624 CE– 9 years=614 0r 615) at the time the Surah Al-Qamar was revealed.

According to the above tradition, Ayesha (ra) was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) in the year of revelation of Al Qamar. “Jariyah” means young playful girl (Lane’s Arabic English Lexicon). So, Ayesha, being a Jariyah not a sibyah (infant), must be somewhere between 6-13 years at the time of revelation of Al-Qamar, and thereby she must have been 14-21 years (6-13 + 8= 14-21 years) at the time she married Prophet.

CONCLUSION: This tradition also contradicts the marriage of Ayesha at the age of nine.

REBUTTAL:
The precise date of the revelation of Surah al-Qamar is unknown. Ibn Hajar, Maududi, and other traditionalists said it was revealed 5 years before Hijrah (muslimhope). Zahid Aziz claimed it was revealed before 6 BH. Khatib said it was revealed in 8 BH. Amjad does not name his source for his claim that the verse was revealed in 9 BH. The point is that the precise date of revelation of Surah al-Qamar is unknown, and using an imprecise date to calculate Aisha’s age is not only ridiculous but stupid. However, if an estimate must be used, then why not use Ibn Hajar’s estimate which is more authoritative and traditionally accepted than that of Khatib’s?

Shaykh Haddad confirms this. He also proves that the traditional estimate of the revelation of Surah al-Qamar is consistent with Aisha’s age being nine years.

Gibril Haddad wrote:Not true. The hadith Masters, Sira historians, and Qur'anic commentators agree that the splitting of the moon took place about five years before the Holy Prophet's (upon him blessings and peace) Hijra to Madina.

Thus it is confirmed that our Mother `Aisha was born between seven and eight years before the Hijra and the words that she was a jariya or little girl five years before the Hijra match the fact that her age at the time Surat al-Qamar was revealed was around 2 or 3.

A two year old is not an infant. A two year old is able to run around, which is what jariya means. As for "the comments of the experts" they concur on 6 or 7 as the age of marriage and 9 as the age of cohabitation.


Thus, Shanavas’ attempt to throw doubt on Aisha’s age by using a non-traditional (i.e. spurious) estimate for the date of revelation of Surah al-Qamar is easily debunked.


Shanavas wrote:EVIDENCE # 7. Arabic Term
According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices that she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked the identity of the bikr (virgin), Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name.

All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "Bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year-old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady without conjugal experience prior to marriage, as we understand the word, virgin, in English. Therefore, obviously a nine-year-old girl is not a "lady" (Bikr). (REF: Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol. 6, p. .210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut.)

CONCLUSION: The literal meaning of the word, Bikr (virgin), in the above Hadith is adult women with no sexual experience prior to marriage. Therefore, Ayesha was an adult woman at the time of her marriage.

REBUTTAL:
Sina has refuted this argument.
Sina wrote:This explanation is absolutely incorrect. Bikr means virgin and, just as in English is not age specific. In fact Ayesha was the second wife of Muhammad (after Khadijah) but Muhammad did not consummate his marriage with her for three years because she was too young. Instead he had to content himself with Umma Salamah, until Ayesha matured a little bit more. It would not have made sense to marry a beautiful woman like Ayesha and wait for three years to take her home.

Shaykh Haddad confirms this.
Gibril Haddad wrote:This is ignorant nonsense, bikr means a virgin girl, a girl who has never been married even if her age is 0 and there is no unclarity here whatsoever.



Shanavas wrote:EVIDENCE # 8. The Qur’anic Text

All Muslims agree that the Qur’an is the book of guidance. So, we need seek the guidance from the Qur’an to clear the smoke and the confusion created by the eminent men of the classical period of Islam in the matter of the age of Ayesha at her marriage. Does the Qur’an allow or disallow marriage of an immature child of seven years of age?

There are no verses that explicitly allow such marriage. However, I found a verse that guides us in our duty to raise a child deprived with the death of one or both parents. I believe that guidance of the Qur’an on the topic of raising orphans is also valid in the case of our own children. The Verse states:

“And make not over your property (property of the orphan), which Allah had made a (means of) support for you, to the weak of understanding, and maintain them out of it, clothe them and give them good education. And test them until they reach the age of marriage. Then if you find them maturity of intellect, make over them their property……” (Qur’an 4:5-6).

In the matter of children who has lost a parent, a Muslim is ordered to (a) feed them, (b) clothe them, (c) educate them, and (d) test them for maturity “until the age of marriage” before entrusting them with management of finances. Here the Qur’anic verse demands meticulous proof of their intellectual and physical maturity by objective test results before the age of marriage in order to entrust their property to them.

In the light of the above verses, no responsible Muslims would hand over financial management to a seven or nine year old immature girl. If we cannot trust a seven-year-old to manage the financial matters, she cannot be intellectually or physically fit for marriage also. Ibn Hambal (REF:Musnad Ahmad ibn Hambal, vol.6, p 33 and 99) claims that Ayesha at the age of nine was rather more interested to play with toy-horses than to take up the responsible task of a wife. Therefore, I would not believe that Abu Baker, a great Moimin, would betroth his immature seven-year-old daughter to fifty-year-old Prophet. Similarly, I would not believe that Prophet (pbuh) would marry a seven-year-old immature girl.

Another important duty demanded from the guardian of a child is “to educate them.” Let us ask the question, “How many of us in the Islamic Center believe that we can educate our children satisfactorily before they reach the age of seven or nine years?”

The answer is “none.” It is a logically impossible task to educate a child satisfactorily before the child attains the age of seven. Then, how can we believe that Ayesha was educated satisfactorily at the claimed age of seven at the time of her marriage? Abu Baker (ra) was a better judicious man than all of us. So, he definitely would have judged that Ayesha was a child at heart and was not satisfactorily educated as demanded by the Qur’an. He would not have married her to any one. If a proposal of marrying the immature and yet to be educated seven-year-old Ayesha came to Prophet (pbuh) he would have rejected it outright because neither Prophet (pbuh) nor Abu Baker (ra) would violate any clause in the Qur’an.

CONCLUSION: Marriage of Ayesha (ra) at the age of seven years would violate the maturity clause or requirement of the Qur’an. Therefore, the story of the marriage of the seven-year-old immature Ayesha is a myth.

REBUTTAL:
This argument is not correct. The Quran permits Muslim men marrying pre-pubescent girls. The evidence is as follows:

1. Surah 65:4 explicitly states that Muslim men can divorce pre-pubescent girls
Hilali & Khan: And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death] . And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.


2. Corroborating evidence from the tafsir of Ibn Kathir
The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses

Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause.


3. Corroborating evidence from Sahih Bukhari
Sahih Bukari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 63:

Narrated Sahl bin Sad: While we were sitting in the company of the Prophet a woman came to him and presented herself (for marriage) to him. The Prophet looked at her, lowering his eyes and raising them, but did not give a reply. One of his companions said, "Marry her to me O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet asked (him), "Have you got anything?" He said, "I have got nothing." The Prophet said, "Not even an iron ring?" He Sad, "Not even an iron ring, but I will tear my garment into two halves and give her one half and keep the other half." The Prophet; said, "No. Do you know some of the Quran (by heart)?" He said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Go, I have agreed to marry her to you with what you know of the Qur'an (as her Mahr)." 'And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). (65.4) And the 'Iddat for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).


Thus, rather than disallowing marriage to pre-pubescent girls, the Quran actually condones it.


Shanavas wrote:EVIDENCE # 9. Consent in Marriage

A women must be consulted and get her permission to make the marriage valid (REF:Mishakat al Masabiah, translation by James Robson, Vol. I, p.665). So, in the Muslim marriage, a credible permission from women is a pre-requisite for the marriage to be valid. By any stretch of imagination, the permission by a seven-year-old immature girl cannot be a valid authorization for marriage. It is unconceivable to me that Abu Baker, an intelligent man, would take seriously the permission of a seven-year-old girl to marry a fifty-year-old man. Similarly, Prophet would not have accepted permission given by an immature girl who, according to Muslim, took her toys with her when she went live with Prophet (pbuh).

CONCLUSION: Prophet (pbuh) did not marry seven-year-old Ayesha because it would have violated the requirement of valid permission clause of Islamic Marriage Decree. Therefore, Prophet married intellectually and physically mature Lady Ayesha.

REBUTTAL:
Shanavas is apparently unaware of the sahih hadith of Bukhari which states that a virgin’s permission is her silence. Since Aisha was a virgin, her permission would have been her silence.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."



CONCLUSION
It can be seen from the analysis above that T.O. Shanavas produces illogical and contradictory evidence based on spurious data to support his case that Aisha was not aged nine when she married and had sex with Muhammad.

For the reason that all his so-called evidence come up with different ages for Aisha and for his use of non-sahih material to debunk sahih hadiths, and for his acceptance of unsubstantiated slander, it is clear he has not made his case. None of his so-called evidence stands the test of critical examination. In many cases, it appears that misquoting and misrepresentation may have taken place. In other cases, it appears that less authoritative sources are preferred over more authoritative sources that support the traditional case.

Shanavas also maligned the scholarship of Ibn Hajar and Tabari, calling them contradictory. Shaykh Gibril Haddad shows that this accusation against Ibn Hajar and Tabari is unwarranted.

Thus, Shanavas is debunked and the fact remains that Aisha was aged nine-years-old when she married and had sex with Muhammad as proven by the relevant sahih hadiths.


With Best Regards,
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Postby NoMind » Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:48 pm

Romo.FX wrote:Tujuan Nabi bukan untuk menikah hanya demi hawa nafsu melainkan untuk melindungi wanita tersebut dari sesuatu yang bisa mendatangkan kepada fitnah..

Coba Anda simak lagi hadist2 berikut ini dengan lebih teliti:

  1. Mencontohkan mengawini anak ingusan berusia 6 th dan menidurinya pada usia 9 th.

    Sahih Bukhari. Vol 7, Book 62. Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah). Hadith 065.

    Narrated By 'Aisha:
    That the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)."


    Sahih Muslim. Book 8. Marriage. Hadith 3310.
    'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

  2. Menyatakan bahwa "legitnya" Aisha yang berumur 9 th secara fisik, seperti tharid (hidangan roti dan daging), tidak ada bandingannya.

    Sahih Bukhari. Volume 4, Book 55, Number 623:

    Narrated Abu Musa:
    Allah's Apostle said, "Many amongst men reached (the level of) perfection but none amongst the women reached this level except Asia, Pharaoh's wife, and Mary, the daughter of 'Imran. And no doubt, the superiority of 'Aisha to other women is like the superiority of Tharid (i.e. a meat and bread dish) to other meals."

  3. Menganjurkan untuk mengawini anak2 gadis perawan yang masih ingusan sehingga bisa meraba2 mereka dan bermain2 dengan mereka.

    Sahih Bukhari. Vol 7, Book 62. Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah). Hadith 017.

    Narrated By Jabir bin 'Abdullah :
    When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'



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Istilah Barat

Postby suzuki » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:48 pm

Sebenarnya phedophile itu kan istilah barat.
Seandainya kafilah keislaman tidak dihancurkan oleh Western maka cerita aisyah ini akan lain. Karena pemikiran dari nomind didominasi oleh barat/western.

Tapi kita memang lagi menunggu kebangkitan kafilah islam yang baru. yang akan menggantikan dominasi barat.

Ini akan ada topiknya sendiri. Ingat istilah Imam Mahdi?
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Postby dago » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:35 am

Kesimpulannya anda tak percaya pada pengarang2 Hadith. Quran tampa hadis bukanlah ajaran islam yang complete.
Maka anda mengaku adanya kepalsuan dalam agama Islam.

Good it is the begining.
kebimbangan adalah bagai retakan dalam fondasi kepercayaan seseorang.
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Postby eyung » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:22 am

dasar dago tidak pakai otak, Muslim tidak 100% mempercayai hadits karena hadits adalah ucapan Nabi Muhammad yang di dengar dan di lihat oleh sahabat , jadi perlu penelusuran yang seksama, apakah perawinya itu jujur, adil atau tukang bohong. Tapi kalau al-Qur'an 100% benar.
Masalah Aisyah itu udah benar dinikahkan oleh Nabi Muhammad, kalau berzinah baru salah, Lagian kontradiksi itu terjadi karena adanya perbedaan tafsir masalah umur.
engga kayak kalian orang kristen percaya ama para pastur, contohnya si Paulus yang mentrinitaskan Tuhan kalian,bisa juga si Paulus itu tukang zinah soalnya ayatnya cabul-cabul. Masa Tuhan tiga bisa berantem dong ihik ihik.
Makanya belajar yang banyak dago jangan asal menghujat tidak pake otak masa 1+1+1 = 1 anak Sd dan TK juga tau 1+1+1 = 3
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Postby badmotha » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:53 pm

saya coba kembalikan ke topik, walaupun para muslim dogol mencoba mengacaukannya. (takut ya?)

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time [b]I was a girl of nine years of age.[/b]

masih kurang sahih? hehehe.

Bagi para muslim yang berpendapat kalau Muhammad mengawini anak kecil itu wajar karena sudah "legal", anda semua lupa satu hal:

Menikah dengan anak 6 tahun justru melanggar hukum dan dikategorikan tindakan yang tidak bermoral di jaman sekarang ini.
Namun moh sendiri yang menyatakan bahwa ialah nabi terakhir yang berlaku untuk selamanya dan untuk seluruh makhluk; ia juga menyatakan diri bahwa ia adalah contoh terbaik untuk ditiru (33:21) dan mempunyai moral yang sangat mulia dan luhur(68:4).




Kelakuan bertolak belakang dengan ajaran moralnya.
Kalo Muh hidup di jaman sekarang, ia pasti digebukin rame2 dan dilempar ke penjara bersama robot gedek, dll.
Ga Percaya?

menurut hukum:
http://www.smeru.or.id/beritadaerah...nak20030131.htm

persetubuhan dengan anak di bawah umur, pasal 287 KUHP mengatur hukuman maksimal 9 tahun (diluar hubungan perkawinan), sementara pasal 288 memberi ancaman hukuman maksimal empat tahun (di dalam hubungan perkawinan).

Pemerintah Filiphina mengancam dengan hukuman mati untuk tindak perkosaan terhadap anak di bawah umur.

Berdasarkan Undang-undang di Amerika Serikat bersetubuh dengan anak di bawah umur (14-18 tahun) digolongkan sebagai tindak perkosaan (statutory rape) walaupun dilakukan secara sukarela baik di dalam maupun di luar hubungan perkawinan.




Terakhir, menurut Shirin Ebadi, pemenang nobel perdamaian dari Iran(muslim :lol: )

http://islamlib.com/id/index.php?page=article&id=445
Ia juga menemukan bahwa HUKUM ISLAM yang mengizinkan perkawinan anak di bawah umur berdasarkan kesepakatan orangtuanya sebagai TIDAK MANUSIAWI, bertentangan dengan semangat pembebasan Islam(?) dan prinsip HAM internasional yang ikut ditandatangani Iran.


Sekali CABUL tetap CABUL.
:twisted: HUAHAHAHA :twisted:
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Postby NoMind » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:43 pm

Tambahan:

Perbuatan mengawini dan meniduri anak kecil usia 9 tahun termasuk perbuatan melanggar hukum yang patut dilaporkan kepada pihak berwajib di Indonesia dan kalo tidak ditanggapi, bisa ke PBB.

Apakah Definisi Anak itu?

http://www.sekitarkita.com/okt02/faqanak.htm

Anak, oleh Konvensi Hak Anak PBB, didefinisikan sebagai “…setiap manusia yang berusia di bawah 18 tahun kecuali berdasarkan Undang-Undang yang berlaku bagi anak ditentukan bahwa usia dewasa dicapai lebih awal.”. Artinya, Konvensi PBB menetapkan usia di bawah 18 sebagai anak-anak namun tetap memberi ruang bagi masing-masing negara untuk menentukan batasan tersebut. Namun tetap PBB menekankan negara-negara anggotanya untuk menyelaraskan peraturan mereka sesuai dengan Konvensi Hak Anak ini. Pemerintah Indonesia sendiri telah meratifikasi Konvensi Hak Anak yang diberlakukan sejak 5 Oktober 1990.


Walaupun dalam UU Perkawinan No. 1 Tahun 1974 Pasal 7 ayat (1) telah ditetapkan batas umur pernikahan yaitu 16 th untuk perempuan dan 19 th untuk laki-laki, tetapi dalam ayat (2) pemyimpangan terhadap ayat (1) diperbolehkan. Aneh, tetapi ini jelas karena UU Perkawinan ini berupaya untuk mengakomodasi hukum perkawinan Islam yang tidak mengenal batas usia nikah. Tetapi jika mengacu pada Konvensi Hak Anak yang sudah diratifikasi oleh negara kita, maka setiap orang yang berusia di bawah 18 tahun masih tergolong anak-anak. Mengawini gadis yang masih di bawah umur tsb berarti mengawini anak-anak. Selain itu dalam KUHP di atur hukuman bagi yang melakukan hubungan seksual dengan anak di bawah umur 15 dan 12, walaupun masih sangat lemah karena dibatasi dengan pernikahan.

http://www.theceli.com/dokumen/produk/1974/UU1-1974.htm

UNDANG-UNDANG (UU) Nomor: 1 TAHUN 1974 (1/1974)
Tentang: PERKAWINAN

Pasal 7

(1). Perkawinan hanya diizinkan jika pihak pria sudah mencapai umur 19 (sembilan belas) tahun dan pihak wanita sudah mencapai umur 16 (enam belas) tahun.

(2). Dalam hal penyimpangan terhadap ayat (1) pasal ini dapat meminta dispensasi kepada Pengadilan atau Pejabat lain yang ditunjuk oleh kedua orang tua pihak pria maupun pihak wanita.

(3). Ketentuan-ketentuan mengenai keadaan salah seorang atau kedua orang tua tersebut dalam Pasal 6 ayat (3) dan (4) Undang-undang ini, berlaku juga dalam hal permintaan dispensasi tersebut ayat (2) pasal ini dengan tidak mengurangi yang dimaksud dalam Pasal 6 ayat (6)


http://www.asiamaya.com/konsultasi_hukum/ist_hukum/batas_usia.htm

KUHP Pasal 287 ayat (1) menyebutkan, barang siapa bersetubuh dengan perempuan yang bukan istrinya, sedang diketahui atau patut disangkanya, bahwa umur perempuan itu belum cukup 15 tahun kalau tidak nyata berapa umurnya, bahwa perempuan itu belum masanya untuk kawin, dihukum penjara selama-lamanya 9 tahun.

Dalam pasal 290 KUHP, dapat dihukum orang yang membujuk atau menggoda seseorang yang umurnya belum cukup 15 tahun atau belum masanya dikawin untuk melakukan atau membiarkan dilakukan pada dirinya perbuatan cabul.


Karena kelemahan hukum yang merugikan anak itu maka anak bayi perempuan yang baru lahirpun boleh di nikahi dan disetubuhi. Dengan pernikahan ini maka si anak (lebih tepat bayi) otomatis kehilangan statusnya sebagai seorang bayi dan di anggap wanita dewasa.

Beberapa Undang-Undang di Indonesia yang merugikan anak

http://www.sekitarkita.com/okt02/uu-anak.htm

Undang-Undang No.4/1997 tentang Kesejahteraan Anak. Pasal 1 (2) UU ini menyatakan : “anak adalah seseorang yang belum mencapai umur 21 tahun dan belum pernah kawin.” Ini berarti anak yang misalnya berumur 17 tahun dan sudah kawin, akan berubah status secara hukum. Akibatnya ia kehilangan haknya untuk dilindungi sebagai anak.


Terus terang saya sangat keberatan dengan pernyataan Anda "saya rasa secara umum tidak ada orang yang menyalahkan orang yang menikahi wanita yang masih belia", dalam konteks nilai moral yang kita bahas di sini. Tidak menyalahkan bukan berarti perbuatan tsb adalah tidak biadab atau bermoral.

Saya juga bisa mengatakan bahwa secara umum tidak ada yang menyalahkan kalo polisi lalu lintas menerima uang saat menangkap pelanggar lalin, tetapi bukan berarti perbuatan tsb adalah benar dan bermoral, bukan?


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Postby dago » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:26 am

eyung
dasar dago tidak pakai otak, Muslim tidak 100% mempercayai hadits karena hadits adalah ucapan Nabi Muhammad yang di dengar dan di lihat oleh sahabat , jadi perlu penelusuran yang seksama, apakah perawinya itu jujur, adil atau tukang bohong.


Jadi ajaran Islam bisa diragukan, Kalian menolak hadis karena buku ini memalukan agama Islam.

Tapi kalau al-Qur'an 100% benar
.

Baik Quran dan Hadis semua tulisan orang. Quran adalah hasil kumpulan ayat2 yang dihafali kurang lebih 200 tahun setelah wafatnya Muhammad.
Bagaimanakah kalian pasti ayat2 itu tidak terubah?

Masalah Aisyah itu udah benar dinikahkan oleh Nabi Muhammad, kalau berzinah baru salah, Lagian kontradiksi itu terjadi karena adanya perbedaan tafsir masalah umur.


Kesimpulan anda rela mengawini anak anda umur 6 untuk dikawini sama kakek2. lalu disetubuhi pada umur9.
Dimanakah rasa moral anda?

Sdri shelionline:
Kalian ngeributin truuussss pernikahan Rasullulah Muhamad SAW dengan Siti Aisyah, coba dong mas-mas ini khan udah dewasa (ngkali)... maksud saya SANTUN DONK BICARANYA...ok.


Soal pernikahan Muhammad dengan seorang anak kecil lalu menyetubuhinya pada umur 9. Itu penting karena menyangkut morality.
Muhammad mengaku seorang nabi, seorang nabi harusnya suci dan tidak perpengaruh soal2 nafsu badani, materi dan peperangan/membunuh.
Yang paling sedih adalah pengikut2nya(Muslims) sepertinya kebejadan kelakuannya itu sudah biasa atau dihalalkan.
Yang lebih sedih adalah kaum Muslimat yang seharusnya lebih sensitive malah membela tindakan Muhammad.
Ini membuktikan semua Muslim sudah kena brainwashing.
Diantara nabi2 dan orang2 suci dari agama2 besar didunia, hanya nabi Muhammadlah yang doyan sex sampai mengawini anak kecil.

Dimanakah pikiran sehat hatinurani Muslim?

Tidak ada satu Muslimspun yang berani mengeritik perbuatan mesum nabinya bahkan sampai pada abad ke21.

Inilah salah satu kelebihan agama Islam.
Last edited by dago on Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby somad » Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:11 am

Romo.FX wrote:Tujuan Nabi bukan untuk menikah hanya demi hawa nafsu melainkan untuk melindungi wanita tersebut dari sesuatu yang bisa mendatangkan kepada fitnah..


Dear Romo FX,

Apakah masukkan yg simpatik ini adalah hasil asumsi anda atau memang terdapat didalam Haditz, kalau bisa tolong dijabarkan Terima kasih

Wassallam.
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