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Hai para murtadin..bacalah ini

a/l ttg hak2 kaum dhimmi, kafir, minoritas non-Muslim, murtadin, musryikun dlm Islam.

Postby Phoenix » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:41 pm

dua...ogut mau tanya, quran itu firman oloh bukan, yanga rtinya kata-kata oloh? Loe jamin en pasti kalau quran itu firman oloh?
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Postby dua » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:25 pm

yah jelas dong Al quran itu adalah firman Allah, kalo yang mengatakan bukan namanya kafir. Eh btw bung fren gimana dgn ini nih

Contradictions of the Gospels



We are told to accept that Jesus existed based upon the Gospels of the Bible, yet the Gospels are so poorly written that a logical person is at best left to ponder if Jesus even existed. The Gospels are consistently contradictive, filled with mathematic errors and don’t compliment each other on very important details. This page shall serve as an example for just how unreliable the Gospels are.



Gospel Contradictions:

1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people "to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn’t Paul guilty of deception?

3) When did the leper become not a leper? (Matthew 8:13 & 8:14) Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. (Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42) Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.

4) Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.

5) Was she dead or just dying? (Matthew 9:1 He asked for help, saying his daughter was already dead. (Luke 8:41-42) Jairus approached Jesus for help, because his daughter was dying.

6) Just what did Jesus instruct them to take? (Matthew 10:10) Jesus instructed them not to take a staff, not to wear sandals. (Mark 6:8-9) Jesus instructed his disciples to wear sandals and take a staff on their journey.

7) When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.

Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.

9) What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.

10) When did the fig tree hear of its doom? (Matthew 21:17-19) Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple. (Mark 11:14-15 & 20) He cursed it before the purging.

11) When did the fig tree keel? (Matthew 21:9) The fig tree withered immediately. and the disciples registered surprise then and there. (Mark 11:12-14 & 20) The morning after Jesus cursed the fig tree, the disciples noticed it had withered and expressed astonishment.

12) Was John the Baptist Elias? "This is Elias which was to come." Matthew 11:14 "And they asked him, what then? Art thou Elias? And he said I am not." John l:21

13) Who was the father of Joseph? Matthew 1:16 The father of Joseph was Jacob. Luke 3 :23 The father of Joseph was Heli. Christians shall try to LIE and tell you that one is the heritage of Mary and the other Joseph. This is utter bullshit, the Hebrew and Greek cultures NEVER regarded the bloodline of the mother. They were patriarchal societies which only concerned themselves with paternal lineage.

14) How many generations were there from the Babylon captivity to Christ? Matthew 1:17 Fourteen generations, Matthew 1:12-16 Thirteen generations.

15) Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.

16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24

1 What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."

19) How many blind men besought Jesus? Matthew 20:30 Two blind men. Luke 18:35-38 Only one blind man.

20) Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5- The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.

21) Can one pray in public? (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer. (1 Timothy 2: Paul encouraged public prayer.

22) If we decide to do good works, should those works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." 1 Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that ... they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." This contradicts: Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them…that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3-5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works ... all their works they do for to be seen of men."

23) Who did Jesus tell the Lord’s Prayer to? (Matthew 5:1, 6:9-13 & 7:2 Jesus delivered the Lord’s Prayer during the Sermon on the Mount before the multitudes. (Luke 11:1-4) He delivered it before the disciples alone, and not as part of the Sermon on the Mount.

24) When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.

25) The two thieves reviled Christ. (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40.

26) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 ("For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel") Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them…" Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it’s a contradiction.

27) When did Satan enter Judas? Satan entered into Judas while at the supper. John 13:27 Satan entered Judas before the supper. Luke 23:3-4 & 7

2 How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.

29) Mark 16:2 It was sunrise when the two women went to the sepulcher. John 20:1 It was still dark (before sunrise) when Mary Magdalene went alone to the sepulcher.

30) There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulcher and they were standing up. Luke 24:4 There was only one angel seen and he was sitting down. Mark 28:2-5

31) How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one.

32) The Holy Ghost bestowed at Pentecost. Acts 1:5-8 & 2:1-4 The holy Ghost bestowed before Pentecost. John 20:22

33) Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

34) Where did Christ ascend from? From Mount Olivet. Acts 1:9-12 From Bethany. Luke 24:50-51

35) Can all sins be forgiven? (Acts 13:39) All sins can be forgiven. Great, I’m happy to know God is so merciful, but wait (Mark 3:29) Cursing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

36) The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.

37) Who purchased the potter’s field? Acts 1:18 The field was purchased by Judas. John 20:1 The potter’s field was purchased by the chief priests.

3 Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice and stood speechless. Acts 9:7 Paul’s attendants did not hear the voice and were prostrate. Acts 22:9 & 26:14

39) Who bought the Sepulcher? Jacob, Josh 24:32 Abraham, Acts 7:16

40) Was it lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death? "The Jews answered him, we have a law, and by our law he ought to die." John 19:7 "The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death." John 18:31

41) Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13

42) Is scripture inspired by God? "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: "But I speak this by permission and not by commandment." 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." 1 Corinthians 7:12 "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord" 2 Corinthians.
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Postby dreamtheater » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:35 pm

Hus dua, kamu ini melawan alquran yah? baca neh postingan dibawah ini.

1. Alkitab sudah ada sebelum muhammad brojol.
2. Muhammad brojol lalu dewasa dan mendapatkan wahyu dari Allah (katanya).
3. Diantara wahyu itu (soalnya banyak) Allah berkata (antara lain):

Surah 5 Al Maaidah ayat 48
“Dan kami telah menurunkan kepadamu (Muhammad) kebenaran, membenarkan apa yang sebelumnya dari Alkitab dan menjadi kesaksian atasnya.”

Surah 46 Al Aqaaf ayat 30:
“Mereka berkata, “Hai kaum kami, sesungguhnya kami telah mendengar kitab (Injil) yang diturunkan sesudah Musa, yang membenarkan kitab yang sebelumnya (Taurat) yang memberi petunjuk kepada kebenaran dan kepada jalan yang lurus.”

Surah 4 An Nisaa ayat 47:
“Hai orang-orang yang telah diberi Alkitab berimanlah kamu kepada apa yang Kami turunkan yang membenarkan kitab yang ada pada kamu (Taurat, Injil).”

Surah 10 Yuunus ayat 37:
“Tidaklah Al Qur’an ini diadakan oleh siapapun selain Allah, bahkan membenarkan kitab-kitab yang sebelumnya (Taurat, Injil) dan menerangkan kitab yang tidak ada keraguan di dalamnya dari Tuhan semesta alam.”

4. Kemudian Muhammad koit dan jadilah Alquran yang dikumpulkan dari musahif2.

5. Jadilah Alquran sampai sekarang sesuai dengan ayat2 yang diwahyukan Allah termasuk pada point 3 diatas.

6. Adapun Alquran tidak pernah menyebutkan membenarkan Alkitab X, Y, Z, Palsu dsbnya.


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Postby dreamtheater » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:44 pm

Alquran beriman dan membenarkan akitab, mencontek beberapa bagian alkitab tapi sayangnya salah menyadur.

Kontradiksi Alquran dengan Torah.

Number of creation days: 8 (Sura 41:9-12) or 6 (Suras 7:51; 10:3)

Bible: 6 (Genesis 1:31)

Noah's Sons: Only 2 saved (Sura 11:32-48)

Bible: All 3 saved (Genesis 7:1-13)


Where the Ark landed: Mount Judi (Sura 11:44)

Bible: The Mountains of Ararat

Abraham's father: Azar (Sura 6:74)
Bible : Terah (Genesis 11:27)

Abraham lived and worshipped in : Mecca (Sura 14:37)
Bible: The Valley of Hebron (Genesis 13:18, 23:2, 35:27)

Was thrown into a fire by Nimrod: Yes (Sura 9:69; 21:68-69)
Bible: Impossible, Nimrod died centuries earlier!

Who adopted Moses?: Pharaoh's Wife (Sura 28:8-9)
Bible: Pharaoh's daughter (Exodus 2:5)

The Samaritans: The golden calf was suggested by "the Samaritan" (Sura 20:87-95)
Bible: Samaritans did not come into existence for many centuries after the time of the golden calf.

Crucifixion in the time of Pharaoh: Yes (Sura 7:124)
Bible: No, this is a Roman punishment (about 1500 years too early!).

Mary gave birth to Jesus: Under a palm tree (Sura 19:22)
Bible: In a stable (Luke 2:1-20)

Mary was Moses' sister (Sura 19:28)
Obviously not Moses' sister (about 1500 years too late).

God: does not love sinners (2:190)
Bible: loves us although we sin (John 3:16; Romans 5:8)

Husbands: may beat their wives (Sura 4:34) (note: "lightly" is not in the Arabic)

Bible: are to love their wife as themselves (Eph 5:25-28)

A wife is: a "tilth" (piece of farmland) (Sura 2:223)
Bible: to be honored (1 Peter 3:7)



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Postby dua » Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:00 pm

Bung islam itu mengimani, zabur (daud), taurat (musa), injil(isa) dan itu sudah lewat masa berlakunya. Nah yang menjadi panutan sekarang ini adalah alquran yang dibawa oleh muhammad sbg rasul terakhir. nah bagi kami ketiga kitab suci hanya wajib diimani dan tak perlu dilaksanakan, kenapa demikian krn yang punya adalah sama yaitu Allah swt..begicu...cu...cu :D :D :D
This why i will never left Islam
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Postby dua » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:50 pm

Why I Am Not A Christian:

Introduction:

This essay was inspired by the consistent assumption of Christians that if I believed the Bible were true, I would become a Christian. There are several reasons for my atheism, the leading of which is the idea of a higher power is not probable in light of current scientific data. The second of which is I do not find the state of the world in accordance with an idea of a loving and merciful higher power. Then of course there is the factor that the basis of this essay shall be about; I do not find the Biblical God fit for worship. Over the course of this essay there will be some times when I will speak as if I believe in the Bible, when in fact I do not.

I plan to examine the Bible with critical inquiry. This essay will not be based upon scientific facts and how they disprove the Bible. It shall be an application of my emotions regarding compassion, love, mercy, patience, and justice. I hope to explain more clearly why the God depicted in the Bible violates my idea of a moral being. This shall be done over a series of topics. Each pointing out how Jehovah is undeserving of my worship. I will utilize Biblical verses to support my claim as well as what I consider to be logical reasoning.

Now would be the time to ask you to please take out your bibles for consultation. (I personally prefer the NIV or KJV) I will only cite the verse and a brief over view. I do not have the space to write out the verse in its entirety. I especially don’t wish to spew out so much information that I run the risk of overloading those people who dislike reading. (Funny confliction here, isn’t it? We are online, in a purely textual world, and people still have the audacity to complain about reading.) In the case that you dislike reading online essays, I recommend you print this out and thumb through it at your convenience.

Hell:

Hell, of course, is the mother of all of my problems with the bible. It is perhaps the most despicable and hideous of all of the Christian God’s crimes. Indeed, the cruelest of all concentration camps. (Certainly far worse than the ones created by the Nazis.) Described biblically as the “lake of fire”, “the place of eternal torment with weeping and gnashing of teeth” Jesus said in Mark 9:42-48 That it is better to commit suicide or self maiming then to be delivered unto hell. So, according to the bible I assume that all here can agree that there is an existence of hell, and that hell is the worst of all circumstance. Knowing this, let me indulge you as to why the existence of hell paints the Christian God as not fit for worshiping.

I am a moderately compassionate individual, rational, moral, and nurturing. Most of all I am a creator, a mother. I propose this to you, a human question. Can all here, Christian or atheist, safely say that if there is a God, he is our greatest thought magnified? Whatever emotion we feel as human, being created in his image, God is infinitely more feeling? For he is the creator of all things created, I believe this concept is pretty safe to assume. With this being so, my love for my daughter must be a fraction of God’s love for his children. Speaking as a mother, I can safely say that if my child were to commit the greatest harm upon me tomorrow, I would never wish her harm. Why? Simply because she is my creation.

If my daughter were to maim me, slander me, etc. I would still love her, for my instinct and emotion demands of me to protect and care for her regardless of her actions, much like all rational beings (animal kingdom included). So now I pose the question, why then would God condemn us to hell for something as menial as lack of faith? If he is not infinitely more so loving then me, why would hell even exist? Any true loving being would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness.

But “God Is Just” You Claim:

Most Christians have responded to this statement with the following rationalization. “God can not let all of his creations into heaven because he is just.” I ask in rebuttal to this, since when is justice more important than love in the heart of a parent? Is hell even justice, or is it simply cruel and unusual punishment? The bible states the system of justice very simply. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. There is also another variation of that system with the biblical verse “eye for an eye”. The Christian God violates his own system of law when he damns his creations to eternal suffering for sins as menial as theft or blasphemy. I hardly think, nor would any logical person, that throwing someone into a gnashing jaw would be justly befitting of nearly any crime. (With the exception of murder, and even so, eternal punishment is pretty excessive.)

Most courts of law would take custody of your child from you just for an excessive spanking. We as a people enacted these laws, for we thought them to be logical. Is God above logic, or what we deem as compassionate behavior? After all he pitches a majority of his children into a lake of “fire and brimstone.” How many of us would want a parent such as that? Anyone of us would immediately sever our ties with such an abusive person. Yet Christians knowingly continue the insanity of giving worship to a God so cruel!

“Free Will”, You Say?

It is also written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not. How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences? That completely conflicts with the definition of free. If I were to hold a gun to your head and say “you have free will to not give me your wallet, but if you attempt to defy me I will kill you.” Does it really feel as if you have a choice in the matter? Of course not. Free means to give or receive something with out an expectation of return. The whole free will concept is self defeating. Call it Circumstantial Will, for that is what it truly is.

Despite this, I have still had the displeasure of debating with those Christians who accept hell as a rational and fair wrath of God. They defend Jehovah’s creation of hell with the opinion that those who are committed to hell go voluntary, as if it is a consequence rather then a punishment. That indeed, we as children of God, chose rather to be hell’s inmates then God’s disciples in heaven. It’s an interesting idea. However, you don’t have to hurt anyone to get into Hell. All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior. It doesn’t matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others. Given this, the voluntary entry argument doesn’t make sense. The same argument could be used to justify the sending of Aryan opponents of Nazism to concentration camps: they voluntarily chose not to give homage to Hitler, so they chose to be interred. Why should we blame the Nazis for the inmates’ choice? Why should we blame God for the choice of the damned?

Genocide:

I hear a lot from Christians about God’s “infinite compassion and mercy”.

Instead of harping on me about something so unapparent, they should go tell it to the Midianites. (Please open your Bibles to Numbers 31) The following verses are a classic example of wholesale slaughter and rape under the direction of the same God they claim to be so merciful. A quick sample of this tale: On the way to the promised land, God had Moses wage a war campaign against the Midian. Moses was told to put every Midianite to death, plunder anything of value, set fire to their towns where they lived and all their encampments. Moses gave the orders to his troops (the sons of Israel) and went on a further campaign. On the return of his troops Moses was enraged with the commanders of the army. He said, “Why have you spared the life of all the women and children? You are to kill all the children and kill all the women who have slept with a man. The lord says spare the lives only of the young girls who have not slept with a man, and take them for yourselves, so that we may multiply into a great nation.” Yes, friends, this is biblical infinite mercy and compassion for you. I particularly like the way that Moses got upset with them for sparing women and male children, but allowed the young girls to be kept for later raping.

I have had some Christians proclaim that these Midianite girls were not taken for raping but marriage. How ridiculous! If you continue further in the scripture you will find that marriage to a Midianite was a crime against God. A man named Zimri, broke the law and married a Midianite woman this angered God so he sent a plague among the Hebrews. Fortunately, a zealous son of Israel speared Zimri right through the genitals, and the plague went away. So now I ask you, if you could not marry a Midianite, just what were these “virgin woman who were to help multiply” good for?

I don’t think the first born in Egypt during the captivity would have agreed with the verdict of compassion and mercy either. (Exodus 11:5 & 12:29) First of all, Jehovah is the one who purposely hardened the heart of the Pharaoh so that he would not let Moses and the Jews go. God messed with someone’s free will. God could have even teleported the Jews out of captivity without bloodshed, or put the Egyptians to sleep while they left, but no. God decided to set up a situation in which he knew he would have to punish the Pharaoh. Though this he didn’t even do. He punished the children instead. Judging from God’s previous actions, killing innocent children is much more his forte.

Lastly, please attempt to read the entire book of Joshua some evening. It is a long sequence of atrocities. I have not given all these quotes for space reasons. I urge you to look them up for yourself. Especially for Christians who are not familiar with the bible. It will leave you not only shocked and in question of just what you are worshiping, but it will give a new definition to all morality you claimed was a derivative of God. If by some chance you read Joshua and you are still compliant with the loving notion of God, I suggest you re evaluate your code of ethics.

Here is the place I will now speak of common rationalizations used for this slaughter. I have discovered via my discussions that there are two major forms: the corruption argument and the mercy argument. The former says that those slaughtered were evil and deserving of their fate; the latter says that since they were religiously incorrect, it was a mercy to terminate their existence.

The corruption argument simply does not hold up. The people slaughtered in the Old Testament were almost uniformly blameless (with a few exceptions, of course for instance, the Sodomites violated the conventions of hospitality.) Usually, no justification is offered beyond the fact that since they were of another tribe, it was OK to kill them. It goes with out saying that the hordes of slaughtered children were innocent. (*Quick tip-If God was anti abortion he wouldn’t have ordered the murder of pregnant women and young children.)

As to the mercy argument: If I don’t claim to be suffering, and don’t ask to die, neither you nor any god has the right to decide that you know better. (This would of course be a violation of my free will.) If a person tried to do this to me, I would quite frankly attempt to kill him; if a god tried, well, the only weapon I would have would be withholding my worship. Are you beginning to see why I do not comply with the worship of the Christian God?

Neglect:


Most of us, given omnipotence, would be able to do a far better job than Jehovah. What would you do if given omnipotence? If your answer is anything other than “abolish world hunger, disease or save the earth”, there’s something more than a little skewed in your perception of mankind. There is no question that the very balance of life is in peril. To wish for these things doesn’t take “infinite mercy”, just normal compassion and a bit of common sense. God’s supposed infinite mercy is apparently the same thing as no mercy at all.

What makes this particularly unforgivable is that even Jesus’ own standards demand feeding of the poor. See Matthew 25:35, in which it is stated that the blessed feed the hungry, and that the damned do not. I find it funny that God is held blameless, though, for not feeding them. Does not the old saying “practice what you preach” apply to God? Is his lack of action a hypocrisy or a sin? Could it perhaps be both?

Usually, when I bring this up in a discussion, someone says, “No. It is the evil of men that is to blame; they have lots of money and keep it to themselves rather than feeding the poor.” (Funny thing that the Christians who say this are usually conservative.) This argument uses a double standard. Men are held guilty for not feeding the poor, while God is held innocent for doing exactly the same. In fact, it would be far easier for God to feed all the poor with his omnipotence, than for any mortal man to feed even one! Mankind is certainly not blameless here, but it is Jehovah who is the true villain.

Another popular rationalization is that life without “challenges” would be boring and dehumanizing, so God does not remove them. The fallacy here is grouping all challenges together. I personally lead a very challenging and satisfying life, but I have not lately had to flee any volcanoes or earthquakes, go without food for a week, or suffer the ravages of some disease. I would be quite happy, in fact, if I never do have to face such challenges as those. There is plenty of room for amelioration of the human condition without making it dull. Does it not defeat the purpose of living life if you are to starve to death?

Faith Is Required To Know God:

Suppose you were an omnipotent god, and you demand worship, such as the Christian God. Would you give proof of your existence to those who wished to follow you? I imagine for Jehovah that it would be quite simple to perform a continual sequence of verifiable miracles. It would be quite logical in practice too, for it would keep God’s followers from delusion and doubt. There is no such luck with Jehovah though. He demands absolute fidelity without any demonstration of his existence. The only so called record of his existence is the bible. I think it pretty much goes with out saying that not only is the bible 2,000 years out dated, but it is also very unoriginal. Any Christian who proposes that the bible is indeed evidence for God’s existence is proposing a double standard. For there are many books which claim to be actual accounts of a higher power. With this in mind, why not believe in Allah from the Koran? Could it be because your faith is what determines your belief and not your so called “factual” book?

Let’s examine what faith is. The definition of faith is hope for a circumstance or thing that is not proven to be true. There is no virtue in accepting something on faith, since it may very well be false, and it is clearly not virtuous to believe the false. Faith has also been proven through out history, time and again, that it is equivalent to massive hysteria; IE: Crusades, Burning Times, Inquisitions, Holy Wars, etc. On a grand scale faith, thus far, has only proven to be an intellectual weakness, and a significant barrier to scientific and moral progress. With all of this in mind, how can God possibly expect us to view faith as the greatest way to glorify him, let alone demand this of us?

Most importantly, the point to remember here is that if we don’t believe in him, we go to Hell, and this is a greater evil than a lack of the “virtue” of faith or a stunting of science, or anything else conceivable. If God is truly concerned about the good, he will do what he can to keep us from Hell, and withholding vital information from us is the exact opposite of this.

God Is The Creator Of Evil:

I am frustrated at two specific verses in the bible, which applies to this particular topic. The first is the biblical statement that “God is the Alpha and the Omega”. Loosely defined it means the beginning and the end, the all knowing. Which of course implies that all of his actions and the results are fore known to him. I have a real problem with this notion. For if God was to know ahead of time that someday he would send me to hell for being an Atheist, I ask what was the purpose in him creating me in the first place? Was it simply to watch me be tortured? That seems to be the most logical explanation. I can think of no other rational explanation, nor neither has any Christian who I posed this question to. Some people have attempted to tell me that God has a purpose unknown to us, and that we must simply accept his will. Would you keep a friend who commits evil and offers no self-justification or remorse? Of course not, so why is this same judgment not applied to God? It’s seems rather contradictory that this trait is despised in humanity, yet, it is worshiped in religion.

Secondly, I want to reinforce the fact that God is indeed the creator of evil. Please read verse Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the lord do all these things”. The Christian God outright claims that he is indeed the source of evil. So how can he then claim to be sinless?

To be more specific, let’s talk about the lord’s creation of evil, let’s talk about the conception of Satan. This being was created and unleashed by God. Jehovah knew (for he is the all knowing) that at the time of Lucifer’s creation he would eventually become Satan, and spend his existence reeking havoc on man kind. Leading people into criminal activities. Suppose I were to build an evil robot, that I knew would go around torturing and murdering people. Whose fault would it be if I let it loose? Mine or the robot’s? Of course it would be mine, for I created it with that purpose and unleashed it for that purpose. Now I ask you, whose fault is deviltry in the world? Is it the PUPPET Satan or the being that deliberately created Satan’s evil?

Now God Plays Switch-A-Roo And Humans Are The Creators Of Evil Not only does the bible imply, but so do many Christians, that we as a people are the creator of evil. It is clear for reading the bible that this is untrue, but the speculation still remains. Supposedly, when Adam and Eve fell from grace, they single handedly brought evil into the world. All you have to do is think logically for a moment, and you will obviously see something is very unjust with this concept. Could any rational being hold a starving infant in Ethiopia responsible for the actions of two long dead people? Or perhaps, would you find it fair to be convicted of Jack the Ripper’s crimes? The connection in both of these instances are not only ludicrous but, disgusting to nod your head at. People who use this argument are simply attempting to rationalize sadism.

I must declare that a Christian that walks into a children’s ward and insists that it is correct that children suffer as a result of the original sin, must destroy themselves of all compassion and mercy. I insist that those who worship the lord knowing this hypocrisy must be as cruel as the Christian God he/she believes in. A complete and utter moral degenerate, taking stabs at protecting their belief system. A person as such would just as easily worship Satan as God in their blindness and faith. For apparently, no amount of evidence could convince him that God was bad once they decided to worship him; their basic assumption is that they are correct, which makes them untouchable by any amount of rationality.

Human Judgment
One of the criticisms most frequently leveled at me when presenting any of the above arguments has been that I have no right to judge God. A pretty feeble grasp at the straws. Christians proclaim that God is the definition of good. All morality proceeds downwards from him, so it makes no sense to apply moral standards to him. But I must interject. God allowed my ancestors Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Thus, allowing us “to be like gods, and know the difference between good and evil”. This very biblical verse, written in the first book of Genesis, conflicts with the same argument these Christians attempt to use. If we as humans are now capable of knowing good and evil LIKE THE GODS why can't we use our judgment? How can it be lower then God’s if God is the one who claimed that we are like him?

Let’s say for the sake of argument that I should not judge God. Well then, would it be fair to hold him up to his own standards? Please consult verses Matthew 25:41-46 We hear Jesus say: “Go away from me with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you never gave me food; I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink; I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, naked and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me. . . And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the virtuous to eternal life.”

Now, I have never personally seen Jesus feed the hungry nor, have I seen him give drink to those who thirst. But, I do personally see thousands of people die of starvation. I do not recall Jesus dispensing clothes. He has never made me feel welcome, let alone acknowledged. I see the faithful sicken and die on a daily basis. In light of this Jesus himself is the worst of all sinners; if there is no double standard he will be at the head of the line into eternal punishment. He is guilty of every crime of which he accuses the damned.

In Conclusion

I don’t think I could ever complete a whole list as to what I find objectionable regarding the bible. There are many more topics in which to tackle such as sexism, infanticide, homophobia, and the likes. Frankly, I find it too tiresome to go on any further. As I read over all that I have wrote I simply wish to close this essay with a very brief summation: I do not believe in the reality of God, except as a psychological phenomenon, but if I did believe I would not worship that horror. It violates my morality to worship a hypocritical, judgmental, self righteous murderer. In punishment, it could send me to the hell it’s made for those it dislikes, and if there was no other choice but worshiping it, I would walk in proudly.
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Postby dua » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:38 pm

makanya bung jangan cuma dengar info dari dogma, baca juga dong bible apokrit seperti barnabas atau judas. Dan coba dong cek signatur gue, pantes pendeta pada kotbah dlm biskota, domba-domba udah pada pergi yah... :) :) :)
Last edited by dua on Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dua » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:59 pm

satu lagi saksi, yang menunjukan bahwa emang gereja udah mulai ditinggalkan domba-domba..hi...hi...hi
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Postby Engkong Jaing » Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:04 pm

Chimp The Pimp wrote:Ngapain baca buku bible aku kan udah bilangaku bUKAN KRISTEN SERIUS. Pantas ISLAM sengsara sekarang Kambing2 pada menjerit hehehehee

Bujug dah, keren juga yak eneh bocah..ngaku bukan Kresten serius...hik..hik..hik :oops:

Mungkin kalo serius bang pimp bisa jadi Paus berikutnye tuh bang...hik..hik..hik :oops: :lol: 8)
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Postby dua » Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:49 pm

Chimp The Pimp wrote:Ngapain baca buku bible aku kan udah bilangaku bUKAN KRISTEN SERIUS. Pantas ISLAM sengsara sekarang Kambing2 pada menjerit hehehehee


he..he...si encim tua ini emang udah lupa apa yang ditulisnya, jangan ikutan idiot kaya sitelor dong cim
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Postby telor » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:39 pm

feodor fathon FF wrote:PENGUMUMAN :

ALHAMDULILLAH SUDAH BANYAK MUALLAF SEMOGA HIDAYAH ALAH TERUS TERCURAH DI FORUM INI ...AMIN.

BERBAHAGIALAH WAHAI ENGKAU PARA MUALLAF SESUNGGUHNYA ALLAH MENSUCIKAN DIRI MU PUTIH BERSIH SEPERTI KERTAS

BIKIN NGIRI AKU AJA DEH KALIAN ...


Iri karna elo ngga dapat bagian budak u/ di perkosa yah atau ngga dapat harta jarahan?
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Postby telor » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:40 pm

dua wrote:SURAT AL AN'AAM (BINATANG TERNAK ayat 111
Orang kafir emang hatinya udah terkunci dan matanya udah buta, walaupun orang mati dibangkitkan mereka tetep aja kafir. kafir..kafir kasihan deh loe..apalgi yang murtad...dosnya..bertambah tambah

Kalau sekiranya Kami turunkan malaikat kepada mereka, dan orang-orang yang telah mati berbicara dengan mereka dan Kami kumpulkan (pula) segala sesuatu ke hadapan mereka niscaya mereka tidak (juga) akan beriman, kecuali jika Allah menghendaki, tetapi kebanyakan mereka tidak mengetahui.


Jual ikan busuk lagi deh si pecundang satu ini
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Postby telor » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:57 pm

Chimp The Pimp wrote:Aku gak ikut2 an orang meskipun ikut2 an mending ikutan si telor daripada ISLAM kayak lu. hehehehe


Biarin lah dia "menikmati" kekalahannya dari gue

Liat aja abis gue skak mat dia ngga bisa apa, cuman bisanya neror kesana kemari sambil ngeluarin kata2 yang ngga jelas sekalian jualan "ikan busuk" (kuran).

dua wrote:makanya bung jangan cuma dengar info dari dogma, baca juga dong bible apokrit seperti barnabas atau judas. Dan coba dong cek signatur gue, pantes pendeta pada kotbah dlm biskota, domba-domba udah pada pergi yah...


crot.. yang ngga jelas dogmanya itu adalah agama ente sendiri
look at the example below :


Quran 8:1
Mereka menanyakan kepadamu tentang (pembagian) harta rampasan perang. Katakanlah: "Harta rampasan perang kepunyaan Allah dan Rasul, oleh sebab itu bertakwalah kepada Allah dan perbaikilah perhubungan di antara sesamamu; dan taatlah kepada Allah dan Rasul-Nya jika kamu adalah orang-orang yang beriman."

Quran 8:41
Ketahuilah, sesungguhnya apa saja yang dapat kamu peroleh sebagai rampasan perang, maka sesungguhnya seperlima untuk Allah, Rasul, kerabat Rasul, anak-anak yatim, orang-orang miskin dan ibnussabil, jika kamu beriman kepada Allah dan kepada apa yang kami turunkan kepada hamba Kami (Muhammad) di hari Furqaan, yaitu di hari bertemunya dua pasukan. Dan Allah Maha Kuasa atas segala sesuatu.



Auoo maha kuasa? Nehi nehi... liat aja buktinya masih ngemis2 harta rampasan kayak gembel. Pakai target lagi, (1/5) kayak preman.
Auoo maha pencipta? lebih2, harta rampasan aja masih minta.

Hanya orang2 dogol kayak dua aja yang percaya ama auoo

Sekarang pertanyaanya siapakah yang lebih pantas mengucapkan kata2 sbb, telor atau dua?

dua wrote:makanya bung jangan cuma dengar info dari dogma...
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Postby allohwhoakbar » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:25 pm

liat dulu deh kelakuan memed tuh, baru omong surga ato neraka ....

memednya aja tukang kimpoi .... klo tukang kimpoi masuk surga, ntar di surga banyak perkosaan dong .......

wah .... surgane surga duniawi

jan guuooobbbllloooggg tenan kowe cah
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Postby allohwhoakbar » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:27 pm

Aloh kui koncone memed, makane memed sugih en bisa ngimpoi sapa wae sak seneng udele dewek ....

kalo ada yang protes, besoknya turun firman aloh .... sopo sing wani ????

perang juga atas perintah aloh, soale memed lagi butuh duit buat jajan, makane perang dulu, klo menang, bisa dapat jarahan atas nama aloh

gitu aja kok repot
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Postby Engkong Jaing » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:31 pm

gitu aja kok repot


Iye gak useh repot2...Lagian mo murtadin muslim koq ngerepotin orang..hik..hik..hik :oops:
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Postby feodor fathon FF » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:46 pm

AWAS HATI YG NGAKU MURTAD PADAHAL MISIONARIS KRESTEN
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Postby numplew. » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:04 pm

Jadi maksudnya banyak yang nyamar masuk Islam ,Ton?
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Postby curious » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:28 am

:D :D :D
padahal akhir-akhir ini banyak yang gembar-gembar banyak mualaf dari kristen. akhirnya ngaku juga cuma kristen yang menyamar. dari dulu juga sudah gua bilang, orang kristen yang sudah kenal Tuhan dan tahu ajaran Kristen, TIDAK MUNGKIN bisa ditipu untuk masuk islam.
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Postby ali5196 » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:52 am

Sekedar mengingatkan akan pepatah A SINA: (nggak OOT khan gua ?)
http://www.indonesia.faithfreedom.org/f ... php?t=2882

Kalau mereka meninggalkan Islam utk agama lain tanpa mempelajari kejahatan islam, maka kemungkinan besar begitu mereka menemukan kekurangan dalam agama baru mereka, mereka akan kembali ke Islam. Ini bukan karena Islam lebih baik. Tapi mereka kembali ke Islam karena mereka tidak tahu menahu ttg Islam.

Tetapi kalau orang meninggalkan Islam karena melihat ke'iblis'an Muhamad dan Allah ciptaannya itu, tidak mungkin mereka akan kembali, kecuali mereka kesurupan dan memang jiwa mereka penuh dgn kebencian dan merasa Islam merupakan alat terbaik utk menyalurkan kebencian mereka itu.
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