maz wrote:saya setuju rezim sadam digulingkan tp cara penggulinganya tu lho yg aneh....
Lu setuju nggak kalau hiroshima & nagasaki telah di bom atom amerika waktu itu? Padahal banyak rakyat yg tdk berdosa malah ikut tewas.
maz wrote:saya setuju rezim sadam digulingkan tp cara penggulinganya tu lho yg aneh....
yvptgxj wrote:Lu setuju nggak kalau hiroshima & nagasaki telah di bom atom amerika waktu itu? Padahal banyak rakyat yg tdk berdosa malah ikut tewas
maz wrote:latar belakang dan alasan peristiwa serangan us ke irak dengan peristiwa bom nuklir nagasaki hirosima jelas tidak sama
maz wrote:setuju atau tidak itu masalah mudah
maz wrote:gini lo mas.data yg anda sodorkan itu terjdi sudah agak lama,saya juga mengakui irak pernah mempunyai senjata itu,kapan,?waktu saya masih kecil..
yang berusaha saya bahas disini bukan dulunya namun berkisaran antara isu irak mempunyai senjata tsb,dengan alasan tsb orang2 barat menduga irak masih mempunyai senjata itu.selanjutnya IAEA melakukan pemeriksaan dan akhirnya tidak ditemukan.
walaupun tidak ditemukan namun irak tetap di embat juga.
alasan pengulingan rezim sadam mah dah masuk kategori operasion plan B atu kang..yang A mah dah failed
Satellite Photos Support Testimony That Iraqi WMD Went to Syria
June 6, 2010 - by Ryan Mauro
Ha’aretz has revived the mystery surrounding the inability to find weapons of mass destruction stockpiles in Iraq, the most commonly cited justification for Operation Iraqi Freedom and one of the most embarrassing episodes for the United States. Satellite photos of a suspicious site in Syria are providing new support for the reporting of a Syrian journalist who briefly rocked the world with his reporting that Iraq’s WMD had been sent to three sites in Syria just before the invasion commenced.
The newspaper reveals that a 200 square-kilometer area in northwestern Syria has been photographed by satellites at the request of a Western intelligence agency at least 16 times, the most recent being taken in January. The site is near Masyaf, and it has at least five installations and hidden paths leading underneath the mountains. This supports the reporting of Nizar Nayouf, an award-winning Syrian journalist who said in 2004 that his sources confirmed that Saddam Hussein’s WMDs were in Syria.
One of the three specific sites he mentioned was an underground base underneath Al-Baida, which is one kilometer south of Masyaf. This is a perfect match. The suspicious features in the photos and the fact that a Western intelligence agency is so interested in the site support Nayouf’s reporting, showing that his sources in Syria did indeed have access to specific information about secret activity that is likely WMD-related. Richard Radcliffe, one of my co-writers at WorldThreats.com, noticed that Masyaf is located on a road that goes from Hamah, where there is an airfield sufficient to handle relatively large aircraft, into Lebanon and the western side of the Bekaa Valley, another location said to house Iraqi weapons.
It seems to be commonly accepted that Iraq did not have WMDs at all. The intelligence was obviously flawed, but the book has not been closed on what actually happened. The media blasted the headline that Charles Duelfer, the head of the Iraq Survey Group tasked with finding out if Saddam had WMDs, concluded that a transfer did not occur. In reality, his report said they were “unable to complete its investigation and is unable to rule out the possibility that WMD was evacuated to Syria before the war” due to the poor security situation.
Although no conclusion was made, Duelfer has since said that he is “convinced” that no WMD went to Syria. He is a competent and credible individual, but there is evidence that key information on this possibility was not received by the Iraq Survey Group, which had many of its own problems.
On February 24, 2009, I went to see a talk Duelfer gave at the Free Library of Philadelphia to promote his book. He admitted there were some “loose ends” regarding the possibility that Iraqi WMD went to Syria, but dismissed them. Among these “loose ends,” Duelfer said, was the inability to track down the Iraqis who worked for a company connected to Uday Hussein that sources said had driven “sensitive” material into Syria. A Pentagon document reveals that an Iraqi dissident reported that 50 trucks crossed the border on March 10, 2003, and that his sources in Syria confirmed they carried WMD. These trucks have been talked about frequently and remain a mystery.
During the question-and-answer period and during a follow-up interview, Duelfer made several interesting statements to me that reinforced my confidence that such a transfer occurred, although we can not be sure of the extent of it.
General Georges Sada, the former second-in-command of the Iraqi Air Force, claimed in his 2006 book that he knew two Iraqi pilots that flew WMD into Syria over the summer of 2002, which came before a later shipment on the ground. I asked Duelfer if Nizar Nayouf or the two Iraqi pilots were spoken with.
“I did not interview the pilots nor did I speak with the Syrian journalist you mentioned,” he said. “We were inundated with WMD reports and could not investigate them all. … To narrow the problem, we investigated those people and places we knew would have either been involved or aware of regime WMD activities.”
He then told me that the lack of testimony about such dealings is what convinced him that “a lot of material went to Syria, but no WMD.” He cited the testimony of Naji Sabri, the former Iraqi foreign minister, in particular.
“I knew him very well, and I had been authorized to make his life a lot better, or a lot worse,” he told me.
He said that Sabri’s position would make him aware of any such deal between the two countries. However, in his book, Duelfer said that Sabri had nothing to do with any of Iraq’s WMD efforts at any time. “His statements on WMD from an intelligence perspective would have been irrelevant,” Duelfer wrote.
“Someone among the people we interviewed would have described this,” Duelfer said. However, such testimony does exist. Don Bordenkircher, who served as the national director of jail and prison operations in Iraq for two years, told me that he spoke to about 40 Iraqis, either military personnel or civilians assigned to the military, who talked about the WMDs going to Syria and Lebanon, with some claiming they were actually involved. Their stories matched and were not contradictory, he said. Another military source of mine related to me how an Iraqi intelligence captain in Al-Qaim claimed to have witnessed the movement of suspicious convoys into Syria between February and March 2003.
I also asked Duelfer if he was aware of the intelligence provided by the Ukrainians and other sources that the Russians were in Iraq helping to cleanse the country shortly before the invasion. His facial expressions before I even finished the question showed he genuinely had never even heard of this.
As explained in detail in Ken Timmerman’s book Shadow Warriors, high-level meetings were held on February 10-12, 2004, involving officials from the U.S., the UK, and Ukraine. Among the attendees were Deputy Undersecretary of Defense John A. Shaw, the head of MI6, and the head of Ukrainian intelligence, Ihor Smeshko. The Ukrainians provided all the details of the Russian effort, including the dates and locations of meetings to plan the intervention and even the names of the Russian Spetsnaz officers involved. Shaw also worked with a British source that ran an intelligence network in the region and provided substantiation and additional details.
The former head of Romanian intelligence during the Cold War, Ion Pacepa, has provided supporting testimony. He says that he had personal knowledge of a Soviet plan called “Operation Sarindar” where the Russians would cleanse a rogue state ally of any traces of illicit activity if threatened with Western attack. The plan’s purpose was to deny the West of any evidence incriminating Russia or its ally. The presence of Russian advisors in Iraq shortly before the invasion, some of whom received medals from Saddam Hussein, is a strong indication that this plan was followed.
Dave Gaubatz, who was the first civilian federal agent deployed to Iraq, told me that he saw intelligence that “suggested that some WMD had been moved to Syria with the help of Russian intelligence.” Iraqis personally confirmed to him that there was a Russian presence before the American soldiers arrived.
Amazingly, Duelfer seems to have never been informed of this intelligence. “This does not mean … that it was not passed on to ISG [Iraq Survey Group],” he said to me later. The fact that the head of the WMD search was never even made aware of this indicates something went seriously wrong. In Timmerman’s book, Shaw says that Smeshko complained about the CIA’s station chief in Kiev not being cooperative. Timmerman researched the station and chief and found that he was very close with other people in the intelligence community who were doing their best to fight Bush administration policies.
Duelfer actually provides information that supports this account. He confirmed that Russia was helping Iraq’s illegal ballistic missile program and had close ties to Saddam’s regime.
“Russians were present in Iraq for many activities. … Russian officials regularly met with Iraqi officials. … Russian KGB officers were in regular contact with the regime at very senior levels. … Russian businessmen were all over Baghdad trying to secure a variety of deals. And of course Russians, including very senior Russians, were in receipt of lucrative oil allocations under the UN Oil-For-Food Program,” Duelfer told me.
The theory that Iraq’s WMD went to Syria is not a fringe conspiracy theory. John Loftus, a former Justice Department prosecutor known for his wide-ranging contacts in the intelligence community, said in an interview we did that “every senior member of a Western, European or Asian intelligence service whom I have ever met all agree that the Russians moved the last of the WMDs out of Iraq in the last few months before the war.”
General Tommy Franks and General Michael DeLong, the top two officials in CENTCOM when the invasion began, have spoken of credible intelligence supporting the theory. General James Clapper, President Obama’s pick to replace Dennis Blair as director of national intelligence, has previously stated his belief that the weapons went to Syria and took part in the meetings organized by Shaw.
Much more evidence exists that the WMD went to Syria, as documented here. Obviously, it is impossible to prove and we do not know exactly what went to Syria, but the history books on this issue shouldn’t be written just yet.
Grigory Pasko (Russia) : Winner of the Reporters Without Borders - Fondation de France Prize 2002
Published on 10 December 2002
The nuclear pollution caused by the Russian military fleet in the Sea of Japan, is far too critical a matter for Moscow to give the media any opportunity to investigate it any further. Their priority seems to be to muzzle the press, rather than to deal with the ecological impact on Russia’s worried neighbouring countries. In his Vladivostok prison, Grigory Pasko knows this full well: his incarceration is a wake-up call for all journalists. The Russian military exacts a heavy toll on whoever dares to implicate them.
After having already spent 20 months in jail in 1997 and 1999 before he was even granted a trial, Pasko was put behind bars again, in December 2001-where he has been ever since-for the same reasons: Pasko was sentenced to four years in prison merely for having thoroughly investigated and written hundreds of articles about the pollution caused by the quasi-abandonment-with the complicity of the FSB (ex-KGB)-of the Russian military’s nuclear submarines, and for allegedly releasing images of the Russian fleet dumping radioactive liquids into the Sea of Japan. These images, which he filmed while working as a correspondent for the naval newspaper Boevaya Vakhta, were broadcast by the NHK Japanese television station, raising vigorous international protests. The FSB deemed these to be acts of "espionnage" and "high treason", he was sentenced in 2001 by the Vladivostok Military Court. In June 2002, the Moscow Supreme Court upheld his sentence of four years in prison without parole. Most of his legal recourses having now been exhausted, Pasko is still languishing in prison, in the place of those who are responsible for the criminal pollution that he exposed.
Pasko is one of the 110 journalists currently in prison around the world just for wanting to do their job. He is supported by several international medias, as part as the journalists sponsorships launched by Reporters Without Borders. These are M6, LCI, Le Nouvel Observateur, France Soir, RFI, Radio classique, France Culture, Phosphore, Le télégramme de Brest et de l’Ouest, le Club de la presse du Limousin, Essex Chronicle, Le Courrier, RTBF - Fréquence Wallonie et la Maison de la presse de Mons.
Over 500 journalists have been killed over the past decade for trying to keep us informed. In too many countries, a journalist can be killed or spend years in prison for just a word or a photograph.
Imprisoning or killing a journalist gets rid of a vital witness to events and threatens the right of us all to information. So Reporters Without Borders and the Fondation de France, through this _7,600 prize, reward a journalist who has shown devotion to freedom of information through their professional work or principled stand.
Previous winners have been Zlatko Dizdarevic (Bosnia-Herzegovina, 1992), Wang Juntao (China, 1993), André Sibomana (Rwanda, 1994), Chris Anyanwu (Nigeria, 1995), Isik Yurtçu (Turkey, 1996), Raúl Rivero (Cuba, 1997), Nizar Nayyuf (Syria, 1998), San San Nweh (Burma, 1999), Carmen Gurruchaga (Spain, 2000) and Reza Alijani (Iran, 2001), who was freed in December last year, a few weeks after being awarded the 10th Reporters Without Borders - Fondation de France Prize.
The five journalists nominated for the 11th prize are:
Gao Qinrong, of the Chinese official news agency Xinhua, who was sentenced in April 1999 to 13 years in prison for having investigated and written about a failed irrigation project in the Yuncheng region of Shanxi province (China);
Bernardo Arévalo Padrón, founder of the Cuban independent news agency Línea Sur Press, who was jailed for six years in November 1997 for "insulting" President Fidel Castro and Vice-President Carlos Lage by calling them "liars" for not keeping promises of democracy they made at an Ibero-American Summit (Cuba);
Michèle Montas, head of Radio Haïti Inter, who has been fighting against impunity since her husband, journalist Jean Dominique, was murdered in April 2000 (Haiti);
Grigory Pasko, of the Russian ecology magazine Ekologiya i pravo and former correspondent of the military paper Boevaya Vakhta, who was sentenced to four years in prison in 2001 for reporting that the Russian navy had dumped liquid radioactive waste in the Sea of Japan (Russia);
Myroslava Gongadze, a journalist for Radio Free Europe, who is fighting for identification and punishment of those who murdered her husband, Georgy Gongadze, editor of the online paper http://www.pravda.com.ua, in September 2000. She is pushing for establishment of international legal machinery to boost the safety of journalists and press freedom in Eastern Europe (Ukraine).
By rewarding one of these journalists, who symbolise press freedom in their countries, Reporters Without Borders and the Fondation de France are sending a message to the public that they need to take a stand in favour of press freedom.
The prizewinner will be chosen by an international jury composed of:
Hamed Hamidzada (Afghanistan), Andrew Graham-Yooll (Argentina), Rubina Möhring (Austria), Mainul Islam Khan (Bangladesh), Olivier Basille (Belgium), Colette Braeckman (Belgium), Zlatko Dizdarevic (Bosnia-Herzegovina), Sebastião Salgado (Brazil), Maung Maung Myint (Burma), Ricardo Gonzalez (Cuba), M’Baya Tshimanga (Democratic Republic of Congo), Domenico Amha-Tsion (Eritrea), Francis Charhon (France), Noël Copin (France), Laurent Joffrin (France), Elise Lucet (France), Sabine Christiansen (Germany), Michael Rediske (Germany), Guy Delva (Haiti), Alessandro Oppes (Italy), Ricardo Uceda (Peru), Alexey Simonov (Russia), Fernando Castelló (Spain), Vicente Verdu (Spain), Alice Petrén (Sweden), Laurence Deonna (Switzerland), Sihem Bensedrine (Tunisia), Alla Lazareva (Ukraine), Alan Rusbridger (United Kingdom), Ben Ami Fihman (Venezuela).
maz wrote:hubungan peristiwa tersebut dengan agama islam rahmatanlil alamin... saya bisa katakan tidak ada..!!
yang ada adalah hubungan dengan umat islam dengan kafir barat, karena ini bukan menyangkut masalah agama,namun menyangkut masalah antar negara yang memang sudah ditakdirkan antara islam dengan kafir atau ahli kitab.
iya kan jeng..??
kita dapat melihat serangan terhadap Irak tidak hanya akan merugikan irak,terutama warga sipil tapi juga akan merugikan Us n Cs,secara materiil maupun moril,bahkan akan berdampak buruk bagi sebagian negara negara di dunia secara langsung maupun tidak langsung akibat konflik tsb pada umumnya,dan akan semakin mempertajam bagi hubungan Islam dengan dunia barat,dalam jangka yang lebih jauh dapat membahayakan pluralisme, multikulturalisme, dan demokratisasi di tingkat global dan regional,seperti yang kita saksikan pada saat ini,... iya kan jeng...??
Sadam hussein bukan figur tanpa cacat dalam konteks hukum internasional. Namun sadam telah telanjur menjadi idola bagi mereka yang anti arogansi negara barat, terutama di wilayah timur tengah dan dunia muslim. ..<potong>..
DHS wrote:Kalau bukan menyangkut masalah agama islam, ngapain anda bawa2 ke mari?
DHS wrote:Kalau emang iya, apa hubungannya dengan FFI?
DHS wrote:Kalau mau protes tindakan Bush, sono protes aja ke PBB, jangan di forum ini, ga relevan.
maz wrote:@ nyata
gini lo mas,saya ini orangnya simple akan saya ulangi lag dari page 2
kalau ada senjata tsb pasti sudah ditemukan,karena tidak ada jelas tidak ditemukan,logikanya kan begono.
la kok malah dijawab ''sesuatu yang tidak ditemukan belum tentu tidak ada''
maz wrote:prnyataan ini memang benar namun tidak sesuai dengan yang kita bahas
karena ada dan tidak merupakan akhir jalan cerita negara irak
.walaupun tim UAEAIA selaku mandataris dari PBB menyatakan tidak ada,tapi masih saja tetap di gebuk dengan menggunakan alasan PLAN B
maz wrote:eeeeeee,,,,,,masih ada yang nunjukin poto telur naga dan poto rumah semut
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