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Benarkah Islam disebarkan dengan pedang?

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Benarkah Islam disebarkan dengan pedang?

Postby gaston31 » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:13 pm

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/cha ... 159094813/

Muhammad's Sword

23/09/06


Since the days when Roman Emperors threw Christians to the lions, the relations between the emperors and the heads of the church have undergone many changes.
Constantine the Great, who became Emperor in the year 306 - exactly 1700 years ago - encouraged the practice of Christianity in the empire, which included Palestine. Centuries later, the church split into an Eastern (Orthodox) and a Western (Catholic) part. In the West, the Bishop of Rome, who acquired the title of Pope, demanded that the Emperor accept his superiority.

The struggle between the Emperors and the Popes played a central role in European history and divided the peoples. It knew ups and downs. Some Emperors dismissed or expelled a Pope, some Popes dismissed or excommunicated an Emperor. One of the Emperors, Henry IV, "walked to Canossa", standing for three days barefoot in the snow in front of the Pope's castle, until the Pope deigned to annul his excommunication.

But there were times when Emperors and Popes lived in peace with each other. We are witnessing such a period today. Between the present Pope, Benedict XVI, and the present Emperor, George Bush II, there exists a wonderful harmony. Last week's speech by the Pope, which aroused a world-wide storm, went well with Bush's crusade against "Islamofascism", in the context of the "Clash of Civilizations".

IN HIS lecture at a German university, the 265th Pope described what he sees as a huge difference between Christianity and Islam: while Christianity is based on reason, Islam denies it. While Christians see the logic of God's actions, Muslims deny that there is any such logic in the actions of Allah.

As a Jewish atheist, I do not intend to enter the fray of this debate. It is much beyond my humble abilities to understand the logic of the Pope. But I cannot overlook one passage, which concerns me too, as an Israeli living near the fault-line of this "war of civilizations".

In order to prove the lack of reason in Islam, the Pope asserts that the prophet Muhammad ordered his followers to spread their religion by the sword. According to the Pope, that is unreasonable, because faith is born of the soul, not of the body. How can the sword influence the soul?

To support his case, the Pope quoted - of all people - a Byzantine Emperor, who belonged, of course, to the competing Eastern Church. At the end of the 14th century, the Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus told of a debate he had - or so he said (its occurrence is in doubt) - with an unnamed Persian Muslim scholar. In the heat of the argument, the Emperor (according to himself) flung the following words at his adversary:

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".

These words give rise to three questions: (a) Why did the Emperor say them? (b) Are they true? (c) Why did the present Pope quote them?

WHEN MANUEL II wrote his treatise, he was the head of a dying empire. He assumed power in 1391, when only a few provinces of the once illustrious empire remained. These, too, were already under Turkish threat.

At that point in time, the Ottoman Turks had reached the banks of the Danube. They had conquered Bulgaria and the north of Greece, and had twice defeated relieving armies sent by Europe to save the Eastern Empire. On May 29, 1453, only a few years after Manuel's death, his capital, Constantinople (the present Istanbul) fell to the Turks, putting an end to the Empire that had lasted for more than a thousand years.

During his reign, Manuel made the rounds of the capitals of Europe in an attempt to drum up support. He promised to reunite the church. There is no doubt that he wrote his religious treatise in order to incite the Christian countries against the Turks and convince them to start a new crusade. The aim was practical, theology was serving politics.

In this sense, the quote serves exactly the requirements of the present Emperor, George Bush II. He, too, wants to unite the Christian world against the mainly Muslim "Axis of Evil". Moreover, the Turks are again knocking on the doors of Europe, this time peacefully. It is well known that the Pope supports the forces that object to the entry of Turkey into the European Union.

IS THERE any truth in Manuel's argument?

The pope himself threw in a word of caution. As a serious and renowned theologian, he could not afford to falsify written texts. Therefore, he admitted that the Qur'an specifically forbade the spreading of the faith by force. He quoted the second Sura, verse 256 (strangely fallible, for a pope, he meant verse 257) which says: "There must be no coercion in matters of faith".

How can one ignore such an unequivocal statement? The Pope simply argues that this commandment was laid down by the prophet when he was at the beginning of his career, still weak and powerless, but that later on he ordered the use of the sword in the service of the faith. Such an order does not exist in the Qur'an. True, Muhammad called for the use of the sword in his war against opposing tribes - Christian, Jewish and others - in Arabia, when he was building his state. But that was a political act, not a religious one; basically a fight for territory, not for the spreading of the faith.

Jesus said: "You will recognize them by their fruits." The treatment of other religions by Islam must be judged by a simple test: How did the Muslim rulers behave for more than a thousand years, when they had the power to "spread the faith by the sword"?

Well, they just did not.

For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Did the Greeks become Muslims? Did anyone even try to Islamize them? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians and other European nations lived at one time or another under Ottoman rule and clung to their Christian faith. Nobody compelled them to become Muslims and all of them remained devoutly Christian.

True, the Albanians did convert to Islam, and so did the Bosniaks. But nobody argues that they did this under duress. They adopted Islam in order to become favorites of the government and enjoy the fruits.

In 1099, the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem and massacred its Muslim and Jewish inhabitants indiscriminately, in the name of the gentle Jesus. At that time, 400 years into the occupation of Palestine by the Muslims, Christians were still the majority in the country. Throughout this long period, no effort was made to impose Islam on them. Only after the expulsion of the Crusaders from the country, did the majority of the inhabitants start to adopt the Arabic language and the Muslim faith - and they were the forefathers of most of today's Palestinians.

THERE IS no evidence whatsoever of any attempt to impose Islam on the Jews. As is well known, under Muslim rule the Jews of Spain enjoyed a bloom the like of which the Jews did not enjoy anywhere else until almost our time. Poets like Yehuda Halevy wrote in Arabic, as did the great Maimonides. In Muslim Spain, Jews were ministers, poets, scientists. In Muslim Toledo, Christian, Jewish and Muslim scholars worked together and translated the ancient Greek philosophical and scientific texts. That was, indeed, the Golden Age. How would this have been possible, had the Prophet decreed the "spreading of the faith by the sword"?

What happened afterwards is even more telling. When the Catholics re-conquered Spain from the Muslims, they instituted a reign of religious terror. The Jews and the Muslims were presented with a cruel choice: to become Christians, to be massacred or to leave. And where did the hundreds of thousand of Jews, who refused to abandon their faith, escape? Almost all of them were received with open arms in the Muslim countries. The Sephardi ("Spanish") Jews settled all over the Muslim world, from Morocco in the west to Iraq in the east, from Bulgaria (then part of the Ottoman Empire) in the north to Sudan in the south. Nowhere were they persecuted. They knew nothing like the tortures of the Inquisition, the flames of the auto-da-fe, the pogroms, the terrible mass-expulsions that took place in almost all Christian countries, up to the Holocaust.

WHY? Because Islam expressly prohibited any persecution of the "peoples of the book". In Islamic society, a special place was reserved for Jews and Christians. They did not enjoy completely equal rights, but almost. They had to pay a special poll-tax, but were exempted from military service - a trade-off that was quite welcome to many Jews. It has been said that Muslim rulers frowned upon any attempt to convert Jews to Islam even by gentle persuasion - because it entailed the loss of taxes.

Every honest Jew who knows the history of his people cannot but feel a deep sense of gratitude to Islam, which has protected the Jews for fifty generations, while the Christian world persecuted the Jews and tried many times "by the sword" to get them to abandon their faith.

THE STORY about "spreading the faith by the sword" is an evil legend, one of the myths that grew up in Europe during the great wars against the Muslims - the reconquista of Spain by the Christians, the Crusades and the repulsion of the Turks, who almost conquered Vienna. I suspect that the German Pope, too, honestly believes in these fables. That means that the leader of the Catholic world, who is a Christian theologian in his own right, did not make the effort to study the history of other religions.

Why did he utter these words in public? And why now?

There is no escape from viewing them against the background of the new Crusade of Bush and his evangelist supporters, with his slogans of "Islamofascism" and the "Global War on Terrorism" - when "terrorism" has become a synonym for Muslims. For Bush's handlers, this is a cynical attempt to justify the domination of the world's oil resources. Not for the first time in history, a religious robe is spread to cover the nakedness of economic interests; not for the first time, a robbers' expedition becomes a Crusade.

The speech of the Pope blends into this effort. Who can foretell the dire consequences?
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Postby berani_murtad » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:26 pm

sudah ada jawaban dari alquran sendiri kalau islam disebarkan dengan kekerasan dan pedang.
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Postby berani_murtad » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:22 pm

bagaimana gaston, anda mengakuinya atau tidak kalau islam disebarkan dengan kekerasan?
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Postby Horbo » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:59 pm

gaston kmu ngerti ga isi copasan kmu, tolong di terjemahin dulu yah,, saya ga ngerti bahasa jawa
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Postby Al Qur'an » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:02 pm

gaston terjemahin dong...pake rekso translator ya kayak si jajang...xixixi
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Postby telor » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:52 pm

Image

Image

Nih buktinya
Pedang dimana2
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Postby nayagenggong » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:22 pm

kalo kesaksian Nayagenggong sih iya pake pedang..

Naya jadi inget waktu R Patah menghancurkan majapahit spt tercantum dalam serat Dharmogandul. Kata Sunan Bonang kalo Majapahit hancur, maka islamlah semua rakyat jawa.
Sdh ada threadnya sih..
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Postby Eneng Kusnadi » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:15 am

Jaman muhammad memang Islam disebarkan pake pedang, jaman attaturk udah pake bedil, jaman imam samudra pake bom.
Jadi Islam disebarkan pake pedang??? hmmm rasanya kurang tepat. :lol:
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Postby Busman » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:31 am

@gaston
fakta memang begitu, muhamad saja mengakuinya, kamu jauh lebih bermartabat dibandingkan muhamad saw, mestinya muhamad saw yang nurut kamu, bukan kamu yang nurut muhamad saw, bisa rusak akhlakmu.

Hadis Sahih Bukhari 4.52.220;
Diriwayahkan Abu Huraira : Kata rasulullah, "... Kemenangan saya adalah melalui TEROR ..."

Sahih Muslim 4:1058
Rasulullah mengatakan, "Saya memiliki LIMA kualitas yg TIDAK DIBERIKAN KPD SIAPAPUN SEBELUM SAYA. Saya diberikan kemenangan lewat ketakutan (yg diinspirasi oleh saya) ...: dan PENJARAHAN dibuat SAH bagi saya, dan tidak disahkan bagi siapa saja sebelum saya ..."

Bukhari 4.1066:
... Rasulullah saw mengatakan: Saya dibantu oleh TEROR ..."

Bukhari 4.53.351:
Diriwayahkan Jabir bin Abdullah, Rasulullah mengatakan: "PENJARAHAN DIBUAT SAH BAGI SAYA."


tanya temen loe si Pembawa Pedang, ternyata bawaannya malah Granat :lol: :lol:
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Postby serraphim0n » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:08 am

Busman wrote:@gaston
fakta memang begitu, muhamad saja mengakuinya, kamu jauh lebih bermartabat dibandingkan muhamad saw, mestinya muhamad saw yang nurut kamu, bukan kamu yang nurut muhamad saw, bisa rusak akhlakmu.

Hadis Sahih Bukhari 4.52.220;
Diriwayahkan Abu Huraira : Kata rasulullah, "... Kemenangan saya adalah melalui TEROR ..."

Sahih Muslim 4:1058
Rasulullah mengatakan, "Saya memiliki LIMA kualitas yg TIDAK DIBERIKAN KPD SIAPAPUN SEBELUM SAYA. Saya diberikan kemenangan lewat ketakutan (yg diinspirasi oleh saya) ...: dan PENJARAHAN dibuat SAH bagi saya, dan tidak disahkan bagi siapa saja sebelum saya ..."

Bukhari 4.1066:
... Rasulullah saw mengatakan: Saya dibantu oleh TEROR ..."

Bukhari 4.53.351:
Diriwayahkan Jabir bin Abdullah, Rasulullah mengatakan: "PENJARAHAN DIBUAT SAH BAGI SAYA."


tanya temen loe si Pembawa Pedang, ternyata bawaannya malah Granat :lol: :lol:

memang orang gila tuh muhammad, horror abis
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Postby Al Qur'an » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:11 am

islam selain disebarkan dengan PEDANG, juga disebarkan dengan "KELAMIN" lhooo....xixixi
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Postby serraphim0n » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:00 am

Al Qur'an wrote:islam selain disebarkan dengan PEDANG, juga disebarkan dengan "KELAMIN" lhooo....xixixi

yah dengan pernikahan yang berbeda agama.
Kok kamu pintar sih 8)
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Postby gaston31 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:00 am

horbo, di FFI ini kan ada team penterjemah. request aj.
lagian, ckup baca yg berwarna atau bold atau underline.

busman, tdk ada kamus islamisasi didalam Islam. bagiku agamaku, bagimu agamamu.udh jelas!

"because faith is born of the soul, not of the body. How can the sword influence the soul?"

* gw edit yg bold
Last edited by gaston31 on Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Eneng Kusnadi » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:51 am

Pengakuan muslim : Sejak peristiwa 911 di NYC Islam jadi laku di amrik!
Bukti lagi islam tidak disebarkan lewat pedang tapi lewat tabrakin dua butir pesawat ke dua butir gedung tinggi di amrik!
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Postby infidel » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:27 pm

Lama2 Muslim bilang kitab Sejarah juga sudah dipalsukan :D
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Postby DianAZ » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:56 pm

Gaston... Apakah kamu mau menulis ulang sejarah islam yang sangat kelam itu,
- sejak Muhammad pindah ke Medinah sampai kematiannya; pedang selalu berdarah
- dari orang pertama sampai keempat (pengganti Muhammand) selalu terjadi bunuh membunuh diantara Sunny dengan Shiah
- Sampai sekarang, setiap kali upacara perayaan imam Ali (satu-satunya mantu Muhammad) selalu ada bom bunuh diri untuk mematikan orang-orang Shiah di Irak
- Maroko, Mesir, Portugal, Spanyol semuanya pernah diduki oleh Islam melalu pedang
- Amrosi meledakan bom di Bali atas nama Islam
- .... terlalu banyak untuk ditulis

Copian kamu di atas tidak tertulis berdasarkan urutan waktu dan konteknya, bacalah sejarah lebih baik lagi.

Jika anda malas untuk baca buku sejarah, coba dong lihat-liha berita dunia dan berkunjung ke organisasi2 HAM maka anda akan tahu bahwa "ISLAM BERKEMBANG MELALUI ANCAMAN, TERROR DAN PEDANG DAN .... DENGAN TEKNOLOGI TERBARUNYA : PEREMPUAN BERKERUNG SUICIDE BOMERS!" :oops: :oops:

Bedanya Islam dengan Crusaide (Roma Katolik) ialah Roma Katolik telah mengakui kesalahannya dan minta maaf kepada orang Israel dan Protestan, sedangkan Islam belum pernah mengakui bahkan bangga dengan metoden jahat nya tersebut,
Dan sementara para Islam yang malu/ pura-pura tidak percaya dgn ajaran Islam yang keras tersebut MENCOBA MENCUCI ATAU MENULIS ULANG SEJARAH ISLAM, SEPERTI TINDAKAN KAMU INI CONTOHNYA! :twisted:
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Postby Busman » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:32 am

gaston31 wrote:busman, tdk ada kamus islamisasi didalam Islam. bagiku agamamu, bagimu agamamu.udh jelas!

"because faith is born of the soul, not of the body. How can the sword influence the soul?"


itu karena dasarnya kau orang baik gas, dan kau hanya mengambil ayat2 yang baik2 saja, sementara ayat jahat kau sembunyikan dan kau hindari, paling banter kau menafsirkan ayat jahat quran itu karena alasan dianiaya atau beladiri, itu klasik, apapun tindakannya, seorang pembunuh tetaplah pembunuh karena telah membunuh, dan itupun dituntun dengan quran (ingat amrozi, nurdin, osama, mereka membela islam dan mampu memberikan alasan yang logis karena tertulis dalam quran dan hadis)

Yang perlu kamu ketahui bahwa islam, quran memfasilitasi semua kelakuan manusia, yang baik maupun yang jahat, (sesuai dengan kondisi emosional muhamad saw) para pembunuh rela berjihad demi islam, islam menyalurkan hobi mereka, pengin baik seperti kamu, ambil saja yang baik2, doyan kawin? ambil dan tafsir saja ayat poligami, tak setuju poligami? ambil saja ayat poligami dan tafsirkan bahwa hanya muhamad saw saja satu2nya manusia yang 'mampu berlaku adil' terhadap istri2 dan budak2 ranjangnya.
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Postby six-ten » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:49 pm

boleh gabung ga????????????

dah lama banget nih baru muncul di forum lg bis jalan2 sih hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

masalah jihad ato maslah apa nih??????
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Postby KI HAJAR ASWAD » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:15 pm

gaston31 wrote:busman, tdk ada kamus islamisasi didalam Islam.


di t4 gue ibu2 haji n remaja masjid paling sering bagi2 sembako gratis. 2/3 bulan berikut cewek2 situ gak pernah nongol lagi di gereja, eh malah pake jilbab sambil latihan qasidah. Yg ginian, didalam islam disebut apa misasi, Ton?

gaston31 wrote:bagiku agamamu, bagimu agamamu.udh jelas!


syukuurrr... mo ngacir kemana-kemana yg penting murtad dulu biar agak aman nih negara!

gaston31 wrote:"because faith is born of the soul, not of the body. How can the sword influence the soul?"


lho yg kalian kejar kan emang jumlah dan bukan kwalitas, kan?
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Postby M-SAW » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:24 pm

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