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Apakah Quran firman Allah?

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Apakah Quran firman Allah?

Postby daniel-ntl » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:21 pm

ini link untuk apakah Quran firman Allah http://www.fatherzakaria.net/
filenya http://www.fatherzakaria.net/books/islam/word/15.zip, kotbahnya :
http://www.islameyat.com/english/audio/ ... _eng28.wmv

mohon yg Islam menanggapi hal ini.
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Postby daniel-ntl » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:32 pm

kok gak ada yg nanggapi?
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Re: Apakah Quran firman Allah?

Postby murtad mama » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:06 am

daniel-ntl wrote:ini link untuk apakah Quran firman Allah http://www.fatherzakaria.net/
filenya http://www.fatherzakaria.net/books/islam/word/15.zip, kotbahnya :
http://www.islameyat.com/english/audio/ ... _eng28.wmv

mohon yg Islam menanggapi hal ini.


oh Fr Zakaria Boutros :lol: nama yg membuat muslim tersengat :lol:

mama punya kawan pastur temen dekat Fr Zakaria Boutros.
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cuplikan www.fatherzakaria.net/books/islam/word/15.zip

Postby daniel-ntl » Tue May 06, 2008 9:26 am

Apakah Quran firman Allah?


I think the cutting point for that matter lies in the verse mentioned in women chapter (Surat An-Nisa') 82:" Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein many contradictions."

Terjemahan Al Qur'an Adz Dzikr - Versi DEPAG Indonesia

SURAT AN NISAA' (4:82)

Maka apakah mereka tidak memperhatikan Al Qur'an ? Kalau kiranya Al
Qur'an itu bukan dari sisi Allah, tentulah mereka mendapat pertentangan yang banyak di dalamnya.


berikut dari kotbah zakaria boutros:
(Episode 44)

Contradictions in the quran


Among the contradictions in the quran:

1) The day of Resurrection:

In the Prostration chapter (Surat As-Sajdah) 5:" then it will go up to Him, in one Day, the space whereof is a thousand years of your reckoning"

While in the Ways of Ascent chapter (Surat Al-Ma'arij) 4:" in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years"

Al-Quortoby said in his exegesis:" in one Day, the space whereof is a thousand years" is the day of resurrection, and what mentioned in the Ways of Ascent chapter (Surat Al-Ma'arij):" in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years" is a contradiction with what was mentioned in the Prostration chapter (Surat As-Sajdah) that said "a thousand years"

Abdullah Ibn Fayrouz asked Ibn Abbas about that verse, he replied: those are days mentioned by Al-Mighty God, I don't know what are those days? So I hate to say something that I don't know about

Then he asked Saeed Ibn Al-Mothiab about it, he replied, Ibn Abbas who is an eminent scholar refused to say anything about it, then what can I say about it? I have no knowledge of it

So even the great eminent scholars were confused about it, then how can we understand? How could the Muslim understand his quran? , and why did God send for us his verses, if they are vague and obscured


2) The days of creation:

It was mentioned in seven verses of the quran that the days of creation were six days

Those verses are in the Prostration chapter (Surat As-Sajdah), Jonah chapter (Surat Yunus), Hud chapter (Surat Hud), The Criterion chapter (Surat Al-Furqan), The Heights chapter (Surat Al-A'raf), Qaf chapter (Surat Qaf) and the iron chapter (Surat Al-Hadid)
While in distinguished chapter (Surat Fussilat) 9-12 :" "Do you verily disbelieve in Him, Who created the earth in two Days .., and measured therein its sustenance in four Days Then He Istawâ (rose over) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come, willingly." Then He completed and finished from their creation as seven heavens in two Days",
So the total number of days of creation in that verse is eight days: 2 + 4 + 2 = 8 days
While in the other seven verses they were six days only, so were they six or eight?
Imam Al-Nasfy said in his exegesis, part 4, and page 130:"God created the earth in two days, measured therein its sustenance in four Days Then He completed and finished from their creation as seven heavens in two Days" so that will be contradicting with his saying six days " in The Heights chapter (Surat Al-A'raf)
Now there were multiple qurans with different versions, contradictions among its text and also contradictions in its facts
So On what basis would the Muslim build his faith? Would he build his faith and his eternal life on uncertainty?

terjemahannya:
beberapa saja kontradiksi dalam quran:

1. hari kebangkitan

Terjemahan Al Qur'an Adz Dzikr - Versi DEPAG Indonesia

SURAT AS SAJDAH
(32:5)

Dia mengatur urusan dari langit ke bumi, kemudian (urusan) itu naik kepadaNya dalam satu hari yang kadarnya adalah seribu tahun menurut perhitunganmu [1191]

Terjemahan Al Qur'an Adz Dzikr - Versi DEPAG Indonesia

SURAT AL MA'AARIJ
(70:4)

Malaikat-malaikat dan Jibril naik (menghadap) kepada Tuhan dalam sehari yang kadarnya limapuluh ribu tahun [1511].

bandingkan kedua ayat yg digaris bawah

menurut penjelasan Al-Quortoby: ada kontradiksi mengenai waktunya allah dimana dalam AS SAJDAH 1 hari=1000 thn dan dalam AL MA'AARIJ
1 hari=50.000 thn.

Abdullah Ibn Fayrouz bertanya kepada Ibn Abbas tentang ayat itu,ia menjawab itu adalah hari2 yg disebutkan oleh allah maha besar,saya tidak tau tentang hari2 itu? jadi tdk akan mengatakan apa2 yg saya tdk tau.

lalu ia (Abdullah Ibn Fayrouz) bertanya pada Saeed Ibn Al-Mothiab tentang hal itu, ia menjawab, Ibn Abbas yg seorang terpelajar saja menolak mengatakan tentang hal itu, lalu apa yg dapat saya katakan tentang itu? saya tdk mengetahui hal itu.

jadi orang yg sangat terpelajar saja bingung tentang hal itu,lalu bagaimana kita bisa mengerti?bagaimana org2 muslim bisa mengerti qurannya?dan mengapa tuhan berfirman kepada kita,jika gak jelas dan membingungkan(kontradiksi)

2.hari penciptaan

di sebutkan dalam 7 ayat dlm quran tentang penciptaan adalah 6 hari.
yaitu dalam Surat As-Sajdah,Surat Yunus,Surat Hud, Surat Al-Furqan,Surat Al-A'raf,Surat Qaf dan Surat Al-Hadid.

sedangkan dalam:
Terjemahan Al Qur'an Adz Dzikr - Versi DEPAG Indonesia

SURAT FUSHSHILAT
ALLAH MENCIPTAKAN LANGIT DAN BUMI DALAM BEBERAPA PERIODE

(41:9)

Katakanlah: "Sesungguhnya patutkah kamu kafir kepada Yang menciptakan bumi dalam dua masa dan kamu adakan sekutu-sekutu bagiNya? (Yang bersifat) demikian itu adalah Rabb semesta alam".

(41:10)

Dan dia menciptakan di bumi itu gunung-gunung yang kokoh di atasnya. Dia memberkahinya dan Dia menentukan padanya kadar makanan-makanan (penghuni)nya dalam empat masa. (Penjelasan itu sebagai jawaban) bagi orang-orang yang bertanya.

(41:11)

Kemudian Dia menuju kepada penciptaan langit dan langit itu masih merupakan asap, lalu Dia berkata kepadanya dan kepada bumi: "Datanglah kamu keduanya menurut perintah-Ku dengan suka hati atau terpaksa". Keduanya menjawab: "Kami datang dengan suka hati".

(41:12)

Maka Dia menjadikannya tujuh langit dalam dua masa. Dia mewahyukan pada tiap-tiap langit urusannya. Dan Kami hiasi langit yang dekat dengan bintang-bintang yang cemerlang dan Kami memeliharanya dengan sebaik-baiknya. Demikianlah ketentuan Yang Maha Perkasa lagi Maha Mengetahui.

jadi total hari penciptaan dalam surat FUSHSHILAT adalah 8 hari :2+4+2=8 hari.

jadi kenapa dalam 7 surat diatas (yaitu dalam Surat As-Sajdah,Surat Yunus,Surat Hud, Surat Al-Furqan,Surat Al-A'raf,Surat Qaf dan Surat Al-Hadid.) menyatakan pencitaan dalam 6 hari, sedangkan dalam surat FUSHSHILAT adalah 8 hari? kontradiksi bukan?

Imam Al-Nasfy menjelaskan (dalam bukunya) bab 4, and hal 130:
"tuhan menciptakan bumi 2 hari,segala isinya 4 hari,tujuh langit dalam 2 hari" bertentangan dengan Surat Al-A'raf yg dalam 6 hari.

jadi berdasar apa muslim membangun imannya?apakah membangunnya dalam ketidak pastian sebab firmannya allah saling kontradiksi?

jadi jelas sudah alquran bukan firman allah
karena dalam surat SURAT AN NISAA' (4:82) Maka apakah mereka tidak memperhatikan Al Qur'an ? Kalau kiranya Al
Qur'an itu bukan dari sisi Allah, tentulah mereka mendapat pertentangan yang banyak di dalamnya.
Last edited by daniel-ntl on Wed May 07, 2008 10:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: cuplikan www.fatherzakaria.net/books/islam/word/15.zip

Postby doski » Tue May 06, 2008 9:32 am

daniel-ntl wrote:Apakah Quran firman Allah?


I think the cutting point for that matter lies in the verse mentioned in women chapter (Surat An-Nisa') 82:" Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein many contradictions."

Terjemahan Al Qur'an Adz Dzikr - Versi DEPAG Indonesia

SURAT AN NISAA' (4:82)

Maka apakah mereka tidak memperhatikan Al Qur'an ? Kalau kiranya Al Qur'an itu bukan dari sisi Allah, tentulah mereka mendapat pertentangan yang banyak di dalamnya.


buktinye banyak pertentangan kan, siah, suni, ahmadiyah, ..muslim masih belon sadar juga...wakakak
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Postby daniel-ntl » Wed May 07, 2008 10:28 am

tuh liat gw dah terjemahin.
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Re: Apakah Quran firman Allah?

Postby Abdul Muslim » Wed May 07, 2008 10:50 am

daniel-ntl wrote:ini link untuk apakah Quran firman Allah http://www.fatherzakaria.net/
filenya http://www.fatherzakaria.net/books/islam/word/15.zip, kotbahnya :
http://www.islameyat.com/english/audio/ ... _eng28.wmv

mohon yg Islam menanggapi hal ini.

Wahai temanku anda dapat baca di Link saya ini tentang Qur`an itu Firman Allah ! : http://www.indonesia.faithfreedom.org/f ... hp?t=22732

tentang pernyataan yang mengatakan bahwa “Dia mengatur urusan dari langit ke bumi, kemudian (urusan) itu naik kepadaNya dalam satu hari yang kadarnya adalah seribu tahun menurut perhitunganmu” [32:5]

Anda dapat membaca sanggahan saya :
Sementara Kilat Dr. Mansour Hassab ElNaby, seorang ahli fisika Mesir, menyatakan bahwa besarnya nilai kecepatan Kilat ini dapat dihitung berdasarkan kitab suci Al-Quran yang telah diturunkan 14 abad yang lalu. Dalam Q.S As-Sajdah ayat 5 Allah berfirman:

Artinya:
“Dia mengatur urusan dari langit ke bumi, kemudian (urusan) itu naik kepadaNya dalam satu hari yang kadarnya adalah seribu tahun menurut perhitunganmu” [32:5]

Pada ayat tersebut Jarak yang dicapai Sang Urusan (yang ditafsirkan sebagai malaikat) selama satu hari sama dengan 1000 tahun atau 12000 bulan. Sehingga, c.t = 12000.L
Dimana kecepatan malaikat adalah c (kecepatan cahaya), t adalah waktu dalam satu hari dan L adalah panjang rute edar bulan selama sebulan.

Diayat berapa Surah Fushilat mengatakan 8 hari ????

coba saya ingin tahu @@@!!!!

Karena setahu saya tidak ada yang kontradiksi !!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allah berfirman (yang artinya), "Allah yang maha pengasih itu ‘istiwa’ di atas Arsy" (Taha:4). Sebagaimana diterangkan dalam hadits Bukhary, para tabiin menafsirkan istiwa dengan naik dan meninggi.
Allah berfirman (yang artinya), "Ialah Allah yang ada di langit-langit" (Al An’am:3).
Allah berfirman (yang artinya), "Allah yang maha pengasih itu ‘istiwa’ di atas Arsy"
Rasulullah Sholallahu ‘Alaihi Wasallam pernah menanyai seorang budak wanita, "dimanakah Allah?".Jawabnya,"Di langit !". Rasulullah bertanya," Siapa saya?". Dijawab lagi, "Kamu Rasulullah". Lalu Rasulullah bersabda, "merdekakanlah ia, karena dia seorang mukminah".

Allah Bukan Batu atau Palang Melintang ataupun Manusia Allah yang Maha Pencipta
MAKA SESUNGGUHNYA ORANG-ORANG YANG MENGATAKAN BAHWA YESUS ADALAH TUHAN DAN PALANG MELINTANG SEBAGAI SESEMBAHAN YANG HARUS DISEMBAH ADALAH UCAPAN TERKUTUK DAN LAKNAT DAN TIDAK AKAN DIAMPUNI OLEH ALLAH ( YAHWEH / ELOHA ) ITU SENDIRI.
Sesungguhnya kafirlah orang-orang yang mengatakan: "Bahwasanya Allah salah seorang dari yang tiga", padahal sekali-kali tidak ada Tuhan selain dari Tuhan Yang Esa. Jika mereka tidak berhenti dari apa yang mereka katakan itu, pasti orang-orang yang kafir diantara mereka akan ditimpa siksaan yang pedih.( Al Maidah : 73 )
Last edited by Abdul Muslim on Wed May 07, 2008 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby daniel-ntl » Wed May 07, 2008 10:56 am

ya sudah, saya cuma terjemahin dan memperlihatkan ada ayat2 quran (yg benar2 tercetak di alquran) yg saling kontradiksi. :D
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Postby kimi07 » Wed May 07, 2008 12:10 pm

dimana terjemahan lengkapnya?
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Postby daniel-ntl » Wed May 07, 2008 4:52 pm

kimi07 wrote:dimana terjemahan lengkapnya?
lha itu saya udah terjemahin semuanya baik,no.1 dan 2. kalo no 3 dst emang gak ada dari tulisan aslinya, filenya http://www.fatherzakaria.net/books/islam/word/15.zip

itu saya cuma ambil episode 44(coba liat tulisan saya di atas yg bhs inggris itu)kalo ada yg mau terjemahin episode yg lain yah boleh aja. :D
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kotbah Zakaria Boutros ****

Postby daniel-ntl » Fri May 09, 2008 6:20 pm

banyaknya versi alquran (ada 31 versi, sekarang tinggal 3 versi)

(Episode 42)

Multiplicity of quran versions and their discrepancies


- The broadcaster: there is a question; we as Muslims don't have except one quran only so how do you say that there are many qurans , do you mean that they are copies of one quran ?, and what are the Islamic references you refer to?

- Father Zakaria: that's a nice and important question; I'd like to answer it here

The main reference that I referred to is the breviary of the Islamic encyclopedia
The original encyclopedia was issued on 1933 in huge volumes, then a breviary for it was made on 1998, this work was introduced to in part one by his eminence Sheikh Dr. Mohammed Sayed Tantawy, Sheikh of the great Al-Azhar Mosque, he said : the Islamic encyclopedia that was published by the General Egyptian Organization for Books in association with Al-Sharka intellectual innovation center is considered on the top of the scientific projects that guides the minds to treasures of the dignified knowledge

It is really a wonderful encyclopedia; I thank God in the first place, then those who made that encyclopedia

The Islamic encyclopedia was published between the years 1913 and 1936 in three editions, in English, German and French , it was said that: The Islamic encyclopedia is still till our present time the only complete work of encyclopedia on Islam

In part 26, page 8175 it said: the quran text that was accredited by Othman Ibn Affan was just one text among other texts found throughout the first four Hijri centuries, it added: there were other qurans in connection with the companions; they were famous in Al-Basra, Al-Kophah and Al-Sham

-The broadcaster; so there are other qurans in connection with the companions, do you remember the references for that?

- Father Zakaria: the most important reference is the Islamic encyclopedia. It exist in 33 complete volumes from " Alf to Ya'"{A to Z} there are also other books speaking about the differences as Abu-Gaefar Al- Nahas, Al-Itqan (the perfection) in quran science by Al-Syouty and other references , but I recommend the Islamic encyclopedia as it is simple and integral and it is available

Of that different references and resources speaking about the differences between the different qurans, in the Islamic encyclopedia Ibn Al-Nadeem mentioned the titles of 11 research works in that field of the differences between the qurans of them:

- The differences between the qurans of the people of Al-Sham, Iraq and Al-Hijaz (by Ibn Amer Al-Yahsoudy, deceased on the year 118 H)

- The differences between the people of Al-Madina, Al-Kophah and Al-Basra in the qurans (by Al-Kithany)

- The differences between the qurans of the people of Al-Kophah, Al-Basra and Al-Sham (by Abe-Zakaria Al-Faran)


- The differences in the qurans and the collector of the different recitations

In addition to three books all of them having the title "the qurans"the most famous of them is that of: Abu-Dawûd Al-Sagistany, Al-Asfhany and Ibn Al-Kabany

-The broadcaster: what did all of those references say about the differences of the qurans?

- Father Zakaria: the Islamic encyclopedia, page 8176, the second column said: the brief book named "the qurans" by Abu-Dawûd Al-Sagistany, the famous narrator (as he has the famous book of converses named Sonan Abe-Dawûd) includes some thousands difference in the text of the quran

-The broadcaster: where are those differences? All of us know that there is only one quran

- Father Zakaria: Actually there are many different qurans

- The broadcaster: those qurans you mentioned, do they exist now?

- Father Zakaria: Here we have Ottoman's quran and Qualown's quran, about Qualown's quran; it was mentioned in the definition of that quran: it was written according to the narration of Abu- Mosa Ibn Mina, known by the name Qualown, narrated from Obi Ibn Ka'b

-The broadcaster: Is there any difference between that quran and the other one?

- Father Zakaria: there is a difference in the spelling and the grammar, there is also another quran named Waresh quran, on that quran it was mentioned that: It was recited by Imam Nafe' Al-Madny from the narration of Hafs, narrated from Assem Al-Korashy

There was an agreement that Dar Al-Ma'aref Al-shameia will be granted the authority to modify the quran text of the available codex narrated from Hafs, so there are changes in the qurans

- The broadcaster: I learned when I was young that the words of God couldn't be altered, now you are saying that there are more than one quran, here are 3 different qurans

- Father Zakaria: Actually the Islamic encyclopedia , part 26, page 8180 describes those differences saying: there are other differences in the recitations of Muslims of the second generation as Ibn Yazid , Akrama and Khatab , also there were other differences attributed to other minor qurans

About that, Al-Tabry deceased on 311 H, spoke about those differences saying: the quran text was not fixed on my time, here is a witness

What are the opinions of the Islamic scholars about the disputed quran text, and the multiplicity of qurans … 31 qurans?

- The broadcaster: those 31 quran are they available and currently in use?

-Father Zakaria: some of them are available, some others were burned by Othman Ibn Affan, and those are really hidden facts

- The broadcaster: did the Islamic encyclopedia mention some details about those differences?

- Father Zakaria: the Islamic encyclopedia is saying in page 8177: most of that mentioned concerning the differences were between the quran of Ibn Masoud in Al-Kophah and the quran of Obi-Ibn Ka'b in Al-Sham and the quran of Abe-Mosa Al-Asharee in Al-Basra

those qurans started during the time of the prophet as Abdullah Ibn Masoud, deceased on the year 33 H , was a companion to the messenger of God , he took from him 77 chapters of the quran , and one of those promised to enter the paradise

- The broadcaster: it was said the Abdullah Ibn Masoud refused to execute the commandment of Othman to slender his quran, and he refused to give his quran to Othman to burn it

- Father Zakaria: that's right, he fled away, he was at that time on Iraq, and he refused to give his quran to Othman to burn it

The quran of Abe- Mosa Al-Asharee was popular in Al-Basra, according to the encyclopedia he told his followers: when the messenger of Othman arrives , don't cancel any part of my quran even if that part is not existing in Ottoman's quran ,, he added: and if any part exists in Ottoman's quran but not in mine , you add that part to my quran

So the quran of Abe- Mosa Al-Asharee was so huge and included the two extra chapters that are not present in the quran of Obi

-The broadcaster: did the Islamic encyclopedia mention the number of those qurans?

- Father Zakaria: in page 8179 it mentioned the quran of Abdullah Ibn Masoud's, Obi-Ibn Ka'b' and Abe- Mosa Al-Asharee

-The broadcaster: who are those are they the writers?

- Father Zakaria: those are the companions who had their own qurans

It was written also that there are qurans attributed to the twelve companions, the second Caliph Omer Ibn Al-Khatab, the fourth caliph Ali-Ibn Abe Taleb and three qurans attributed to three of the prophet's wives , one for Aeisha, the daughter of Abe-Baker, one for Hafsa the daughter of Omer , and Om-Salma making the total of 8 qurans

Other qurans are those for: Zaied Ibn Thabet, Abdullah Ibn Abbas, Anes Bin Malek, Abdullah Ibn Al-Zoubir, Salem Maola Abe Hozaifa , Abdullah Bin Amre Ibn Al-Ass and Obaid Bin Omeir Al-Laithy

Abu-Dawûd Al-Sagistany added: the quran of Ata' Abe Rabeh ,Akrama ,Moujahid ,Saeed Bin Gabber and the quran of Al-Asoad Ibn Yazid and that of Muhammad Bin Abe Mosa

Also the quran of Talha, Suleiman Ibn Mahran making the total of 25 qurans

-The broadcaster: Amazing!!! You mentioned 25 qurans mentioned in the Islamic encyclopedia and Al-Sagistany, do you have other Islamic references telling about more of those qurans that were existing


- Father Zakaria: Al-Sagistany added also 2 other qurans; the quran of Abu-Zaied, and that of Moaaz Bin Gabel , in addition to the chapters that were written during the time of Muhammad on the bones and stones ,what happened to those chapters?, they are not existing now and nothing mentioned about them in any reference
While he is saying" It is we who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, we will guard it"
There is Also the quran of Abe Baker Al-Sedeek which was assembled by Zaied Ibn Thabet and the quran of Othman Ibn Affan which was also assembled by Zaied Ibn Thabet, in addition to the quran of Al-Hajaj Ibn Yousef Al-thakafy in which he made radical changes

-The broadcaster: I am wandering where had all of those qurans gone …31 qurans?

- Father Zakaria: while there are about half a million converses, had they lost the qurans while they kept the converses? It is a big question

Is it one quran or 31qurans, they are different qurans and not copies

Where had those qurans gone? The simplified Arabic encyclopedia (by Muhammad Shafik Ghorbal) said in page 1187:" Othman had burned all the qurans except the one which he ordered to be distributed and generalized

How did they dare to burn those qurans? They should have left them to the people to inspect and see the differences by themselves

-The broadcaster: that makes me skeptical of the credibility of the quran we have

- Father Zakaria: that's why we are asking Al-Azhar scholars to explain that respecting the mind of people in the twenty first century , How does the Muslim take the basis of his faith on doubts in the quran which is the main reference for him? …31 qurans, nothing left of them but only three

Those are inquires pushing themselves on our minds and we are requesting answers, let they tell us How and Why that happened and clarify things to us
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Re: kotbah Zakaria Boutros ****

Postby osho » Fri May 09, 2008 11:08 pm

kenapa harus hitung-hitung satu hari atau ribuan tahun.....?
Anda akan di ketawai oleh para sufi-sufi......
tidak ada hitungan seperti itu.....
Bila Jiwa telah keluar dari sukma......
apalagi yang dikatakan malaikat.....
hanya sekejap udah sampe..... tidak sampe satu detik....
jarak berapa jauhpun...semuanya hanya sekejab.....

hihihihihihihihiiiiiii........
karangan cerita dongeng seorang buta huruf yang hanya bisa menduga-duga......
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Postby daniel-ntl » Wed May 14, 2008 12:02 pm

sambungan yg di atas, ini perbandingan 3 versi quran yg ada sekarang.

(Episode 43)

The discrepancies in the quran text
In different versions


The Islamic encyclopedia, part 26, and page 8168 said:" there were discrepancies in the text of Ottoman's quran in the copies of Makkah, Al-Madina and Al-Kophah

They were verbalization and dictation errors, there were also copying errors due to inaccuracy of the writers

Ottoman's quran had been sent to Damascus, Al-Basra, Al-Kophah and other cites

The Islamic encyclopedia, part 26, and page 8167 said that:

• In the copy of Damascus: there were differences in the text as:

- In Family of Imran chapter (Surat Aal-'Imran) 184:"Then if they reject you, so were Messengers rejected before you, who came with Al-Baiyinât (proofs) with the Scripture and with the Book of Enlightenment"

Instead of "Then if they reject you, so were Messengers rejected before you, who came with Al-Baiyinât (proofs) and the Scripture and the Book of Enlightenment"

- The Forgiver chapter (Surat Ghafir) 21:" Have they not travelled in the land and seen what the end of those who were before them was? They were superior to them in strength"

Instead of " Have they not travelled in the land and seen what the end of those who were before them was? They were superior to you in strength"

• In the copy of Al-Kophah: there were differences in the text as:
- The Forgiver chapter (Surat Ghafir) 26:" I fear that he may change your religion, or that he may cause mischief to appear in the land!"
Instead of:" I fear that he may change your religion, and he may cause mischief to appear in the land!"
The Islamic encyclopedia said that the incomplete spelling letters were those used in the writing of the first versions of the quran that resulted in discrepancies in the writings and ultimately differences in the copies of the quran
- As the Arabic language was written initially in the incomplete stagnant letters (meaning without figuration and speckling), so the drawing of the letter was used for multiple pronunciations and therefore multiple meanings as:
د " " could be "ذ " or د"" , Also "ب" could be ت" "or" ث"or "ب"

Each of them if present in the word with different speckling will give different meaning
That resulted in major problems in the language of the quran
- The Islamic encyclopedia said in page 8187 and 8188:
Even if there is agreement in the verbalization of the silent letters, there were other problems as some verbs were read with the unknown format or the known format
Also some nouns could have raised or heaved endings
Some nouns were read as verbs
As a result of using the incomplete letters in writing, there were many differences in the meanings, as an example for that:
The cow chapter (Surat Al-Baqarah) 219:" In them is a great sin" instead of:" In them is a lot of sins" as great isكبير" " and a lot of is كثير" " so different speckling results into different meanings , and similar to that there are so many places where meaning was quite different due to absence of speckling of the words
- Al-Sagistany mentioned in his book" the qurans", page 50-75 many examples for that,
And about the differences in the qurans of Al-Ansar, he mentioned in page 39-49: the differences were in the grammatical position, the figuration and other things and consequently there were differences in the meanings
How did all of those differences exist and it was said that the quran is preserved in conserved tablet before the beginning of time? and where that from his saying" It is we who have sent down the Dhikr (the Quran) and surely, we will guard it"
- The Islamic encyclopedia said in page 8138:
1) in the first Hijri century during the Amaoian epoch from year 41 H to 132 H , those differences in the recitation of Ottoman's quran were gradually increasing , and a new recitation emerged which was the mingling of Ottoman's quran with the other qurans for Obey Ibn Ka'b and Ibn Masoud
2) In the beginning of othmanian epoch the differences between the qurans reached a degree that it was impossible to differentiate between the accredited recitation of Ottoman's quran and other qurans
But with the introduction of the clear Arabic letters having figuration and speckling, that made some adjustment in the quran text, but yet was not reliable as there were lot of contradictions within them, that was not according with the basis of the handwriting development science
3) In the beginning of the fourth Hijri century, the differences in the qurans were so evident, and known to all, that resulted in serious conflicts about which recitation is the true one
And the truth was totally lost
- The simplified Arabic encyclopedia said in page 69: when the errors in recitations were tremendous in the epoch of Ali-Ibn Abe Taleb , he assigned Nasr Ibn Asey Al-Basry to adjust the quran ,that was during the epoch of Al-Hajaj Ibn Yousef Al-Thakafy
- Al-Sagistany mentioned in the book of "the qurans" that Al-Hajaj Ibn Yousef Al-Thakafy changed 11 sites In Ottoman's quran
We are asking after all of those changing, altering, mingling and syncretizing between the different qurans throughout history
Is it a human book undergoing altering, mingling with other books and syncretizing between the words??!!!
Where is the origin??? Where is the conserved tablet???
Where is Muhammad's quran?
How did all those changes happen and it is preserved in the conserved tablet?
Does the Muslim depend on vague, ambiguous and uncertain book, a book that had been altered throughout history?
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Re: Apakah Quran firman Allah?

Postby dulilah » Sat May 17, 2008 1:07 am

Abdul Muslim wrote:
daniel-ntl wrote:ini link untuk apakah Quran firman Allah http://www.fatherzakaria.net/
filenya http://www.fatherzakaria.net/books/islam/word/15.zip, kotbahnya :
http://www.islameyat.com/english/audio/ ... _eng28.wmv

mohon yg Islam menanggapi hal ini.

Wahai temanku anda dapat baca di Link saya ini tentang Qur`an itu Firman Allah ! : http://www.indonesia.faithfreedom.org/f ... hp?t=22732

tentang pernyataan yang mengatakan bahwa “Dia mengatur urusan dari langit ke bumi, kemudian (urusan) itu naik kepadaNya dalam satu hari yang kadarnya adalah seribu tahun menurut perhitunganmu” [32:5]

Anda dapat membaca sanggahan saya :
Sementara Kilat Dr. Mansour Hassab ElNaby, seorang ahli fisika Mesir, menyatakan bahwa besarnya nilai kecepatan Kilat ini dapat dihitung berdasarkan kitab suci Al-Quran yang telah diturunkan 14 abad yang lalu. Dalam Q.S As-Sajdah ayat 5 Allah berfirman:

Artinya:
“Dia mengatur urusan dari langit ke bumi, kemudian (urusan) itu naik kepadaNya dalam satu hari yang kadarnya adalah seribu tahun menurut perhitunganmu” [32:5]

Pada ayat tersebut Jarak yang dicapai Sang Urusan (yang ditafsirkan sebagai malaikat) selama satu hari sama dengan 1000 tahun atau 12000 bulan. Sehingga, c.t = 12000.L
Dimana kecepatan malaikat adalah c (kecepatan cahaya), t adalah waktu dalam satu hari dan L adalah panjang rute edar bulan selama sebulan.

Diayat berapa Surah Fushilat mengatakan 8 hari ????

coba saya ingin tahu @@@!!!!

Karena setahu saya tidak ada yang kontradiksi !!



coba kamu hitung yg bener 1000 tahun itu berapa bulan ? jangan lupa hitungannya dalam kalender masehi atau arab...atau mungkin cina....
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Postby FREEDOM_CODE » Sat May 17, 2008 1:22 am

Definisi :

Qur'an : Kitab Aneh Yang Dikarang Manusia Lalu Diklaim karya Ajaib Hak Cipta Allah

Mualaf : Orang Biasa Yang Tiba-Tiba Dapat Hidayah Terus Jadi Guoblok

Kafir : Orang Pandai Yang Kritis

Murtad : Orang Pandai Yang Sadar Kalau Ditipu

Bukti : Lihat aja dan bandingkan saja tingkat intiligent dan emotion antara Mualaf dan Kafir dan Murtad mana yang lebih baik

Fakta :
1. Mengapa yang merajai Militer dunia US bukan Arab (Protestan)
2. Mengapa yang menjadi raksasa ekonomi dunia China bukan Arab (Budha, Tao, Konghucu)
3. Mengapa yang mengendalikan Politik dunia Israel bukan Arab (Judaisme)
4. Mengapa pertumbuhan Industri terbesar dunia di India bukan Arab (Hindu)
5. Mengapa Kesejahteraan penduduk lebih terjamin di Eropa Bukan Arab (Katholik)
Dst........................... Inilah tanda bagi manusia yang berfikir atau masih kurang jelas....??????????

Sekarang kita tidak perlu tulis bukti biar saja muslim yang berfikir, karena bukti macam manapun ada tetap aja ngeles dengan 1001 tafsir Aneh

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Last edited by FREEDOM_CODE on Sat May 17, 2008 1:32 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Busman » Sat May 17, 2008 1:23 am

Artinya:
“Dia mengatur urusan dari langit ke bumi, kemudian (urusan) itu naik kepadaNya dalam satu hari yang kadarnya adalah seribu tahun menurut perhitunganmu” [32:5]

artinya kalau hari ini urusannya dinaikkan ke langit maka 1000 tahun lagi urusan itu akan nyampe.
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Postby osho » Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm

Busman wrote:
Artinya:
“Dia mengatur urusan dari langit ke bumi, kemudian (urusan) itu naik kepadaNya dalam satu hari yang kadarnya adalah seribu tahun menurut perhitunganmu” [32:5]

artinya kalau hari ini urusannya dinaikkan ke langit maka 1000 tahun lagi urusan itu akan nyampe.

berarti malaikat Jibril bolak-balik menyampaikan firman Allah itu berapa lama....?
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Postby Yehuda » Thu May 22, 2008 7:29 pm

Ya ampun udah pada sadar toh kalau quran itu cuma kitab senang-senang...
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