Faith Freedom International - Forum Indonesia

[Lulldapull]

Inilah cara kebanyakan orang AmeriKKKa yang naif membentuk patriotismenya sendiri...

The Way Americans Like Their War
by Robert Fisk



Published on Saturday, June 3, 2006 by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer

by Robert Fisk

Could Haditha be just the tip of the mass grave?

The corpses we have glimpsed, the grainy footage of the cadavers and the dead children; could these be just a few of many? Does the handiwork of the United States' army of the slums go further?

I remember clearly the first suspicions I had that murder most foul might be taking place in our name in Iraq. I was in the Baghdad mortuary, counting corpses, when one of the city's senior medical officials, an old friend, told me of his fears. "Everyone brings bodies here," he said. "But when the Americans bring bodies in, we are instructed that under no circumstances are we ever to do post-mortems. We were given to understand that this had already been done. Sometimes we'd get a piece of paper like this one with a body." And here the man handed me a U.S. military document showing with the hand-drawn outline of a man's body and the words "trauma wounds."

What kind of trauma is now being experienced in Iraq? Just who is doing the mass killing? Who is dumping so many bodies on garbage heaps? After Haditha, we are going to reshape our suspicions.

It's no good saying "a few bad apples." All occupation armies are corrupted. But do they all commit war crimes? The Algerians are still uncovering the mass graves left by the French paras who liquidated whole villages. We know of the rapist-killers of the Russian army in Chechnya.

We have all heard of Bloody Sunday. The Israelis sat and watched while their proxy Lebanese militia butchered and eviscerated its way through 1,700 Palestinians. And of course the words My Lai are now uttered again. Yes, the Nazis were much worse. And the Japanese. And the Croatian Ustashi. But this is us. This is our army. These young soldiers are our representatives in Iraq. And they have innocent blood on their hands.

I suspect part of the problem is that we never really cared about Iraqis, which is why we refused to count their dead. Once the Iraqis turned upon the army of occupation with their roadside bombs and suicide cars, they became Arab "gooks," the evil sub-humans whom the Americans once identified in Vietnam. Get a president to tell us that we are fighting evil and one day we will wake to find that a child has horns, a baby has cloven feet.

Remind yourself these people are Muslims and they can all become little Mohamed Attas. Killing a roomful of civilians is only a step further from all those promiscuous air strikes that we are told kill 'terrorists" but which all too often turn out to be a wedding party or -- as in Afghanistan -- a mixture of "terrorists" and children or, as we are soon to hear, no doubt, "terrorist children."

In a way, we reporters are also to blame. Unable to venture outside Baghdad -- or around Baghdad itself -- Iraq's vastness has fallen under a thick, all-consuming shadow. We might occasionally notice sparks in the night -- a Haditha or two in the desert -- but we remain meekly cataloguing the numbers of "terrorists" supposedly scored in remote corners of Mesopotamia. For fear of the insurgent's knife, we can no longer investigate. And the Americans like it that way.

I think it becomes a habit, this sort of thing. Already the horrors of Abu Ghraib are shrugged away. It was abuse, not torture. And then up pops a junior officer in the United States charged for killing an Iraqi army general by stuffing him upside down in a sleeping bag and sitting on his chest. And again, it gets few headlines. Who cares if another Iraqi bites the dust? Aren't they trying to kill our boys who are out there fighting terror.

For who can be held to account when we regard ourselves as the brightest, the most honorable of creatures, doing endless battle with the killers of Sept. 11 or July 7 because we love our country and our people -- but not other people -- so much. And so we dress ourselves up as Galahads, yes as Crusaders, and we tell those whose countries we invade that we are going to bring them democracy. I can't help wondering today how many of the innocents slaughtered in Haditha took the opportunity to vote in the Iraqi elections -- before their "liberators" murdered them.

Robert Fisk writes for the Independent, published in Great Britain.
© 2006 Seattle Post-Intelligencer

http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/pri ... 603-27.htm

[Ola2_Bla2]

Sekarang Dah Jelas Siapa Teroris n Siapa yang Bikin Dunia Penuh Perperangan...siapasih Tuhan yang Memberkati Amerika...Jadi Pengen Kenal Deh...

[Ola2_Bla2]

Tapi Kenapa Setiap Peperangan Yang Dilakukan Amerika..Si Bush Slalu Berkata Di Akhir Pidatonya
"God Bless America...seolah2 Memerangin Negara Lain N Mencampuri Urusan Negara Orang lain DIBERKATI>>>Wow...Apa Arti HAM Demokrasi...
Amerika n antek2nya Di manapun Berada..mereka kayaknya ga senang Liat Umat Islam Tenang Aman Dan Tentram...Tapi selalu bilang Umat Islam Teroris klo ketenangan mereka Balas Di ganggu UMAT ISLAM...(^.^)Tuing

[curious]

apakah God Bless Amerika cuma dinyatakan setiap ada peperangan? seperti yang ada katakan, Bush selalu berkata di akhir pidatnya God Bless Amerika. apakah ini salah? itu artinya hanyalah Tuhan memberkati Amerika. Orang bersin saja dikasih "salam" God Bless You yang sering disingka dengan "bless you" saja. Lagu kebangsaan New Zealand kalo nggak salah judulnya God Defend New Zealand atau ada syairnya begitu. Apakah itu juga nggak boleh?

Small minded banget lu!

[Ola2_Bla2]

Prasaan Gw Ga Ada Bilang Itu Salah...karena itu hak dia(bush)...Karena Intinya Teroris dan Pelanggar Hak asasi Manusia Adalah Kaum Yang Memang Ga Pernah Merasa Tenang Meliat Umat Muslim Tenang Damai Dan Tentram...Dan Yang Paling Di takutkan Mungkin Islam Memimpin peradaban Dunia Kali

Dalam nama “perang melawan terorisme” pemerintahan Bush menuntut-dan dikabulkan-kekuasaan-kekuasaan yang tak terbentuk dan tak terbatas untuk menggunakan kekuatan militer di seluruh dunia...Oh man...F**ck Amerika

[curious]

hm... kalau muslim macam osama yang punya teknologi nya, akan kah dia tidak menggunakan kekuatan militernya untuk menguasai dunia? sekarang aja teknologi cetek sudah mengancam akan mengislamkan seluruh dunia. apalagi kalau lu yang berhasil.

anyway... ini forum TERORISME & JIHAD DALAM ISLAM, bukan AMERIKA. ntar dibuang ke tong sampah sama moderator lu!

[Phoenix]

Ah...die itu sirik aje ame Rika. soalnye si rika itu cakep..dibanding die...kaya lage...en makmur..sedang die kere..tapi sayang sombongnya ujubilah...

[namasamaran]

USA emang Kristen, lalu nyerang irak,afghanistan, dan banyak negara2 islam; karena mreka emang layak diperangi. Emang hrs ada kekuatan "super" yg mesti menindak tegas itu negara islam yg bikin kacau dunia.
Emang knapa rupanya coy? Mo protes? Ngamuk tp gak mampu ngebales; yah paling banter ente2 cuma ngedumel doang.... :P

[Ola2_Bla2]

USA emang Kristen, lalu nyerang irak,afghanistan, dan banyak negara2 islam; karena mreka emang layak diperangi. Emang hrs ada kekuatan "super" yg mesti menindak tegas itu negara islam yg bikin kacau dunia.
Emang knapa rupanya coy? Mo protes? Ngamuk tp gak mampu ngebales; yah paling banter ente2 cuma ngedumel doang.... :P

Huah...KEREN...super?!?!?!super penakut iyalah....maen Kroyok!!!! Sejak kapan islam bikin kacau...
Cuman Amerika dan Sekutunya yang bikin kacau dunia...

[Lulldapull]

@Ola2,

Beginilah gambaran rombong(an) idiot yang memuja AS mati-matian. Saya disini mencoba menggambarkan watak mereka dari sosok-sosok warga Barat yang independen macam Robert Fisk yang memahami persis masalah ini. Akan tetapi kaum Neanderthal pro-Zionis disini tak mau mengerti karena Allah SWT telah menutupi hati mereka...

Saya detik ini masih bergabung pada komunitas maya yang mengulas masalah pertahanan dimana selain warga Barat dan Zionis, saya juga berkenalan dengan warga Iran, Arab, Pakistan, dsbnya. Bahkan rekan Libanon mengatakan pada saya bahwa ia akan balik ke negerinya...

@Anus-Sumir,

USA emang Kristen, lalu nyerang irak,afghanistan, dan banyak negara2 islam; karena mreka emang layak diperangi. Emang hrs ada kekuatan "super" yg mesti menindak tegas itu negara islam yg bikin kacau dunia.
Emang knapa rupanya coy? Mo protes? Ngamuk tp gak mampu ngebales; yah paling banter ente2 cuma ngedumel doang.... Razz

Logika loe menunjukkan watak loe yang sesungguhnya. Ini sama saja menjustifikasi bahwa Muslim berhak melenyapkan tikus tanah Zionis. Lo adalah aib yang membuat Muslim dan warga dunia muak.

Sudah baca di koran bagaimana Haifa, "Israel" mengepulkan asap?

[Lulldapull]

apa hubungannya dengan agama dodolz

Loe tinggal di Inggris ya? Do you hate Muslims because some Pakis whack yer balls?

[namasamaran]

"Lulldapull"]@Ola2,

Beginilah gambaran rombong(an) idiot yang memuja AS mati-matian. Saya disini mencoba menggambarkan watak mereka dari sosok-sosok warga Barat yang independen macam Robert Fisk yang memahami persis masalah ini. Akan tetapi kaum Neanderthal pro-Zionis disini tak mau mengerti karena Allah SWT telah menutupi hati mereka...

Saya detik ini masih bergabung pada komunitas maya yang mengulas masalah pertahanan dimana selain warga Barat dan Zionis, saya juga berkenalan dengan warga Iran, Arab, Pakistan, dsbnya. Bahkan rekan Libanon mengatakan pada saya bahwa ia akan balik ke negerinya...

@Anus-Sumir,

USA emang Kristen, lalu nyerang irak,afghanistan, dan banyak negara2 islam; karena mreka emang layak diperangi. Emang hrs ada kekuatan "super" yg mesti menindak tegas itu negara islam yg bikin kacau dunia.
Emang knapa rupanya coy? Mo protes? Ngamuk tp gak mampu ngebales; yah paling banter ente2 cuma ngedumel doang.... Razz

Logika loe menunjukkan watak loe yang sesungguhnya. Ini sama saja menjustifikasi bahwa Muslim berhak melenyapkan tikus tanah Zionis. Lo adalah aib yang membuat Muslim dan warga dunia muak.

Kebalik boz, yg aib dan memuakkan itu Muslim!!! Gw ngarasa gak ada yg salah dg logika gw di atas. Begini sistematika logika berpikirnya; Bahwa sesungguhnya fenomena terorisme sudah menjadi ancaman bagi peradaban manusia di muka bumi ini, Apakah anda setuju dengan ini? Kalo iya, kita lanjutkan ke alur logika berpikir (sehat) yg selanjutnya; Karena terorisme (yg notabene dilakukan oleh orang2 Islam [atau anda ingin saya berkata, "..yg dilakukan oleh 'org2 yg mengatasnamakan islam? fine baca sj begitu]) maka diperlukan suatu tindakan keras atas nama kemanusiaan, dan demi kelestarian kehidupan manusia di muka bumi ini. Apakah anda setuju dng alur logika kedua ini? (kecuali bila anda lebih setuju kalo terorisme itu dibiarkan sj merajalela mengancam kehidupan seluruh umat manusia di bumi ini).
OK, bila kita sepakat dengan dua alur logika berpikir (sekali lg, BERPIKIR SEHAT) di atas, maka perdebatan kita bisa kita mulai dengan pertanyaan (paling tidak) 2 pertanyaan:
1. Tindakan keras & tegas macam apa yg harus diambil terhadap terorisme, demi menyelamatkan kehidupan beradab manusia di bumi ini?
2. Siapa yg harus mengambil tindakan tegas & keras tsb?
Nah mari kita berdebat di ranah ini (saya asumsikan bahwa anda telah setuju dengan 2 alur logika berpikir di atas).
Jawaban saya utk pertanyaan #1: Bahwa sumber2 terorisme (baik ideologi, akses, tempat/lokasi/sarang maupun orang & sekelompok orang/organisasi) harus diberangus habis sampai ke akar2nya. Dlm hal ideologi, saya menuduh ISLAM sebagai sumber ideologi terorisme saat ini!!! (tugas anda adl membuktikan bhw ISLAM BUKAN SBG SUMBER IDEOLOGI TERORISME). Oleh karena ISLAM sbg sumber ideologi dr terorisme, maka otomatis sarang terorisme adalah tempat2 dimana islam bertumbuh subur sbg keyakinan/agama. Maka tempat2 atau wilayah (negara) yg memberikan akses bagi orang2/sekelompok org/organisasi yg dengan sengaja mengembang-biakkan terorisme harus diberantas habis! (memang menyakitkan, seperti mengangkat kanker dr tubuh kita, tp mau tdk mau itu hrs dilakukan demi kelestarian kehidupan beradab manusia).
Pertanyaan #2: Baik mereka yg telah menjadi korban maupun mereka yg berpotensi utk menjadi korban selanjutnya dr keganasan teorisme, dimungkinkan utk turut serta dlm melakukan tindakan tegas (perang) terhadap para teroris. Mereka punya "HAK HISTORIS" utk melakukan perang thd terorisme!!!

Itu saja dulu jawaban saya. Akan berkembang nanti, tergantung dr respon anda.

[Phoenix]

Sudah baca di koran bagaimana Haifa, "Israel" mengepulkan asap?

Nah bukti kan kalau Hizbullah juga nyerang..awas kalau bilang cuman ISrael yang ngebomin Lebanon!!

Tapi cuman kena perumahan tuh..nggak separah Lebanon...

Badewei, itu bilangin sama Hizbullah..jangan jadi PENGECUT getu..beraninya ngumpet di rumah sipil..di penduduk Kristen lage..

MALUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mana oloh elo!!!

Yang paling lucu Saudi Arabia malah minta ke Amrik buat nanganin masalah ini. Bahkan Sheik Arab minta kepada pem. Syria utk menghentikan bantuan dan dudkungannya thd Hizbullah..

Wuaahhhhhhhh...padahal itu perang bukan Israel vs Lebanon, tapi Israel vs Hezzbolah!

[LabuLabi]

Evangelical Christians plead for Israel
By Richard Allen Greene
BBC News, Washington



A week into one of the most severe crises the Middle East has seen in years, Israel is getting an influx of support from an unusual source.
More than 3,400 evangelical Christians have arrived in Washington to lobby lawmakers as part of the first annual summit of Christians United for Israel.

Delegates have come from all 50 states and have 280 meetings on Capitol Hill on Wednesday, Pastor John Hagee said.

Pastor Hagee, the main organiser, said the event was the first of its kind.

"For the first time in the history of Christianity in America, Christians will go to the Hill to support Israel as Christians," he said.

The event was planned months ago, and is not a direct response to the ongoing violence in the region.


They see God's word being played out on their television sets
Timothy Shah, Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life

But the military conflict "certainly makes our meeting more significant," Pastor Hagee said.

The thousands of Christians in Washington - who came and are staying at their own expense - will be urging the US government "not to restrain Israel in any way in the pursuit of Hamas and Hezbollah", he said.

"We want our Congress to make sure that not one dime of American money goes to support Hamas and Hezbollah or the enemies of Israel."

Gift from God

John Hagee is the pastor of the 18,000-member Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, and a long-time fervent supporter of Israel.


In common with many American evangelicals, he believes that God gave the land to the Jewish people and that Christians have a Biblical duty to support it and the Jews.

His latest book, Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World, interprets the Bible to predict that Russian and Arab armies will invade Israel and be destroyed by God.

This will set up a confrontation over Israel between China and the West, led by the anti-Christ, who will be the head of the European Union, Pastor Hagee writes.

That final battle between East and West - at Armageddon, an actual place in Israel - will precipitate the second coming of Christ, he concludes.

It is not clear how many evangelicals believe literally in those type of prophecies.

Research by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life last year found that evangelical Christians were more likely to support Israel than any other religious group in America besides Jews.

And there are far more evangelicals in America than Jews - estimates suggest that they represent about a quarter of the US population. (Jews make up about 2%.)

Two in three evangelicals believe that the establishment of the state of Israel fulfils Biblical prophecy, the survey found.

And what they see in the news only reinforces their faith, according to Timothy Shah, a scholar at the Pew Forum.

"When they see what's going on in the Middle East, a whole range of enemies arrayed against God's people, they see God's word being played out on their television sets," he said.

"They see Israel triumphing over its enemies as proof that God's promises remain."

'Huge influence'

Evangelical Christian support for Israel is "not a new phenomenon", Mr Shah said, pointing out that there were Christian Zionists lobbying for a homeland for the Jews in Ottoman Palestine in the 19th Century.


These groups have much more influence that Aipac or the so-called Israel lobby
Michelle Goldberg,
Author of Kingdom Coming

What has changed is the movement's level of political involvement, said Nancy Roman, the director of the Council on Foreign Relations' Washington programme.


"Part of what is happening is that the evangelical community in the US is becoming more engaged in the political process," she said.

"Whereas the church used to counsel people not to engage in politics, many churches are now counselling the opposite.

"It's important and it will have a huge influence on foreign policy over time," she added.

Backing irredentists

Michelle Goldberg is deeply concerned about that influence.

She is the author of Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, which argues that a significant strain of conservative Christianity is working to undermine fundamental American rights and freedoms.

She said the movement was just as dangerous in foreign policy.

"Christian Zionism is responsible for American support for some of the most irredentist Israeli positions," she said, such as support for settlement-building.

She said evangelical Christians had substantial influence on US Middle East policy - more so than some better-known names such as Aipac, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.


"The influence of Hagee is to make the American public support the government's completely one-sided, hawkishly pro-Israel stance. These groups have much more influence than Aipac or the so-called Israel lobby."

Pastor Hagee himself said his group potentially had more clout than Jewish pro-Israel groups.

"When a congressman sees someone from Aipac coming through the door, he knows he represents six million people. We represent 40 million people."

One of those people is Rosa Highwater of Biloxi, Mississippi, who heard about the Washington summit through a local pastor.

She had no money to attend, she said, but added: "You have to believe and trust in the Lord when he tells you he's going to do something."

And in the end, friends paid for her journey to Washington and put her up in nearby Virginia.

She said she was not sure which congressman she would be meeting on Wednesday, but she knew her mission was important.

"Israel is God's first love," she said. "The Lord told me to come and be an intercessor. I said, 'I got to go. I got to do this.'"

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/5193092.stm

Published: 2006/07/19 11:38:53 GMT

Cowards who hide behind secularism then claim and blame God.

[ali5196]

suseh ya kalau paedophilia tingkat akut, begini neh. Kayak ingus, keluar masuk.

[reggie]

suseh ya kalau paedophilia tingkat akut, begini neh. Kayak ingus, keluar masuk.

li, kamu pernah punya pengalaman pahit dengan phedophili? mudah2an tidak pernah. nah sekarang, biar situs ini maju, seharusnya kamu berbaik hati sama orang yang kamu sangkakan phedophili. mana tahu kl caramu kamu ubah, misalnya kamu pura2 baik, orang jadi simpati, dan mereka mengikuiti jalanmu untuk murtad. kalo caramu begini memurtadkan orang, wah, jauh panggang dari api. percayalah padaku (kata pendeta michael).

[dreamtheater]

li, kamu pernah punya pengalaman pahit dengan phedophili? mudah2an tidak pernah. nah sekarang, biar situs ini maju, seharusnya kamu berbaik hati sama orang yang kamu sangkakan phedophili. mana tahu kl caramu kamu ubah, misalnya kamu pura2 baik, orang jadi simpati, dan mereka mengikuiti jalanmu untuk murtad. kalo caramu begini memurtadkan orang, wah, jauh panggang dari api. percayalah padaku (kata pendeta michael).

Gie, gw ga punya pengalaman ama pedopil, poligami dan cerai. Tapi gw dengan hati nurani dan pikiran gw sangat membenci perbuatan2 itu!!! sungguh perbuatan biadab!
ok coy???

[Ola2_Bla2]

hihi...MAsa SeH,jelas klo kalian tuh mang dah benci dan terlalu banyak fakta yang mengada-ada jadi akal sehat kalian tidak mau terima ama yang sebenarnya...coba lah sekali berangkat langsung kesana(palestina,Libanon)jadi jangan cuman berasumsi atas dasar kebencian...

http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html

[Lulldapull]

@LabiLabi,

Begitulah kelakuan fundamentalis idiot dari daerah AmeriKKKa bagian selatan. Semestinya mereka perlu bergabung dengan kecoak Zionis untuk mengobarkan Perang Dunia III.

[Thufgifar]

Setuju man, gua juga pingin nge-bantu lebannon
Tapi nggak gampang, kapan hari gua ikut demo
**** tuh pemerintah indonesia, gak mau bantu saudara kita

SAVE OUR PALESTINE!!!!!!!!!!